Hypnogogia and OOBE

[nytek]

Sick of intermittent results and the discouragement it's provided, I'm about to embark upon a chemical journey to try another route toward the mastery out of body experiences. I'm open to any and all suggestions on which substances you think would be fairly hypnotic without arresting a person's ability to keep the mind awake while allowing the body to loosen awareness enough to fall asleep. The rarity of gathering up any potential recommendations is not really an issue to keep you from posting, please note.

[UncleAl]

Probably not what you were looking for, BUT it popped into my head as it's come up several times recently is the SSRI Cymbalta which gives crazy dreams. I find that crazy dream inducing drugs can be useful to OBEs. Then again, like you, I've only ever had them sporadically, but my best ones having been "almost" waking up from naps (in the afternoon) but then having a full blown OBE. Short-lived (maybe 5-10 minutes at most) but fantastic.

[nytek]

Probably not what you were looking for, BUT it popped into my head as it's come up several times recently is the SSRI Cymbalta which gives crazy dreams. I find that crazy dream inducing drugs can be useful to OBEs.

Hmm... no, this might be good. I don't have any experience with anything stronger than OTC sleep meds, but those certainly do bring one into a deep and drowsy swoon which you need to fight to stay awake in during the right circumstances. I guess "fighting to stay awake", would be the potential problem then if applied to OOBE with OTC meds. With adjustment to find the proper dosage this non-OTC way might be very good and effective though. Thanks.

I'm going to chase this lead down and when I can I'll post results. I'm gonna do research as well on my own, and additionally will try to find more materials. Google has to have something hidden and waiting for me.

Then again, like you, I've only ever had them sporadically, but my best ones having been "almost" waking up from naps (in the afternoon) but then having a full blown OBE. Short-lived (maybe 5-10 minutes at most) but fantastic.

Same. When I was around 14, give or take, I would go to bed thirsty during the summer. I'd say, "fuck it... I'm too tired", and I'd crash at like 5am. But you know, sometimes you're too parched in that heat to comfortably sleep, right?

So I would decide to get up and notice that my body is still on the bed partially attached to me... which freaked me out to no end. This progressed over 4-5 times to me making it to the door without noticing my body on the bed, then making it through the doorway to the stairs, then lastly down the stairs where my hand passed through the fridge the final time.

Each time it started the same... going to bed thirsty and exhausted which provided a little discomfort to prevent me from totally slipping beyond the wall of sleep. Maybe we need to stay awake for two days and then try adding some discomfort. Or perhaps the cymbalta will do the trick before that.

Later on in life, I've managed to do this on purpose only after making some progress in asana from a wide awake state ... but holy shit how much momentum it takes which is much more easily lost if you skip even a few days of practice. You know? Bah. I can count on one hand how many wide-awake OOBEs I've had and they were short lived.

That said, I've had a good amount of "success" reading for a few hours each night and mentally rehearsing OOBE before going to bed which seemed to trigger my best ones. I found if you inundate the brain with that kinda message your subconscious will perhaps reward you. Perhaps.

Thanks anyhow, and I doubt this which I've shared will be anything new to you, but if so, then give it a shot. By the way, have you heard of Robert Monroe and his binaural tone powered Gateway project? I have to admit while using it daily it trained me to enter a hypnogogic state at the very least he calls, "focus 10". I can tell you where to get this program. But it takes real solid persistence and more patience than I had the last time around to be honest. Let me know if you want to try it. I'm thinking a combo is gonna be best, whatever I go with.

[nytek]

My friend mentioned tricyclics ... also MAOIs plus 5HTP, I think. Disassociatives might be good to look into also but could just as easily distract. I should have something more concrete to bring back within the next few days. Apparently there might be more useful SSRIs than cymbalta and he's scanning his books and posts. Thanks for the tip, again. I have a good feeling. Then again, there is always use of hypnotics like valium but that scares the shit out me for obvious reasons. Seems like you'd have to hit the proverbial nail on the head or become addicted faster than two shakes of a lamb's tail ... with parkinsons. :x

[nytek]

I'm going to go the route of an herbal blend first after much discussion. Hypnotics seem to potentially place too much emphasis on the physical body and could stimulate in that sense what I seek to disassociate from... but leaning on disassociatives isn't good either since in my expeirence they seem to stimulate the mind too much to allow proper relaxation to occur... Otherwise, the SSRI/MAOI route with 5HTP preloading is open, provided I have a small dose to avoid serotonin sickness, but would probably be very taxing and I'm not sure if it's worth it or even possible yet.

That said, I'm currently exploring his blends he's worked on, and also mixing something with home brewed kava extract, lotus, 5HTP, maybe skullcap, opium lettuce, lavender (vaporized in a volcano vaporizer), and some other things that might do the trick like valerian... still gathering suggestions, if you know of any herbs like that.

[Izabael DaJinn]

I don't have any drugs to ADD to the list, but cutting out Marijuana definitely increases my dream recall and intensity.

I had an OOB experience just before waking up a few weeks ago. Only lasted a few minutes though...really so close to a dream except it was in my room prettty much exactly how it is in a waking state with that much clarity and stability.

[nytek]

Ah! How did I miss this post? Oh well.

I don't have any drugs to ADD to the list, but cutting out Marijuana definitely increases my dream recall and intensity.

Really? I'd have to say it depends on the family of the genetics, the strain to a lesser degree, the dosage, and method and timing of ingestion personally. Most importantly as with anything dose makes the poison figuratively or literally. In some instances I'd have to agree with you with MJ, but I'm wondering your experiences now in particular which brought you to your conclusion you've made. It could be that different things effect different people differently.

I find things which mildly interfere with sleep actually help you flicker into that certain twilight state. Personally my best and most repeatable experiences are with hash capsules (medical quality hybrid strain--sativa/indica 323mg capsule or 161.5mg more likely with my average height and weight in mind). Those are a different ballgame entirely more akin to a straight-up hallucinogen which take 1-3 hours to begin to effect you and last for around 4-7 hours completely. Strange and lucid dreams are way more likely than OOBE of course simply because my subconscious still needs to trigger me into saying, "hey, this is a dream.".

When I do get into the habit of dream recall however I can easily recall on average three but up to seven dreams per night seemingly as easily with or without "chemical assistance" ... but it's more likely with it perhaps surprisingly going off of my experience. Sativa is even better ... for me ... though pure indica is absolutely horrible for this sort of a thing on the other end of the spectrum which is the most commercially available and common variety. Indica without any memorable exception has destroyed all hope of remembering even simple dreams except maybe fragments of one.

I had an OOB experience just before waking up a few weeks ago.
Only lasted a few minutes though...really so close to a dream except it was in my room prettty much exactly how it is in a waking state with that much clarity and stability.

Yeah, I find that without the sluggishness of my physical senses it's like even more awake than being "awake". Did you manage to do anything though? I would go flying. I love hearing about this stuff even if you just stood around being amazed. Hearing any success from others always bolsters my confidence in a way.

Recently I've had a lucid dream about a week ago that was just like an out of body experience but not. I remember I was floating on my back atop a black ocean that was limitless looking up at the stars at night in a moonless sky for what felt like three to five minutes. It had several qualities of the real deal, but I was partially asleep just looking up at all of the stars as I drifted and bobbed with the currents. I was aware of things from a first person perspective but not aware that my physical body was sleeping somewhere else like other times where I appear typically closer to the real time zone just like your experience.

Also have you tried 5-HTP for this...? If timed right the results between that and MJ for me at least almost match up, but for a deficit on the part of the HTP. It seems to need something else.

[nytek]

Robert A. Monroe - Journeys Out of Body

Robert a. Monroe - Journeys Out of Body

Robert a. Monroe - Journeys Out of Body
Get your own at Scribd or explore others:

I'm sure I've mentioned this at the least, you know, since the subject is at hand. This account of Monroe's experiences made into a book is so well written and scrutinously documented that I'm always impressed whenever I read through it. Enjoy....

[IKnowNothing]

I too have found that weed kills dreams, sometimes for several days.

If you really want to call in the heavy guns on your exteriorization difficulty, datura will do it. it is also dangerous to some degree, but it is the main component of a 'flying ointment' that medieval (and earlier) magicians used to jump out of their skin.

Any plant of the group that contains Scopalomine, hyascamine, and atropine will do the trick. start small and use the same material as you dose, because a dose that is weak from one source will kill you dead from another. there are other plants that are added to ointment, made with a recipe that is available if you search online but that i don't know off the top of my head. just your datura/henbane/nightshade/etc should work. but ingestion is the more dangerous then skin absorption, as once it is in you, its in you, but you can wash off the ointment to slow things down. i would probably use tea, and i might start by just rolling some cigarettes with the foliage just to get the hang of it. which you definitely might need to do.

What this will do is probably knock you into a uncomfortable rest for a few hours. when you wake up, you won't really wake up. you'll keep right on dreaming whilst being awake. you will hold in depth conversations with objects that might or might not actually exist. literally anything might happen. it might last up to three or more days. or, you could think it's over and then it throws one last hallucination at you just for fun when you think you're sober. and thats the tricky thing here...

outside of a extremely dry mouth, sweating, and slight coordination problems, you'll feel normal. the hallucinations are 100% indistinguishable from reality. 100%. you will hallucinate normal things, medium things, and bizarre things. you might hallucinate a notebook on your table and not even notice it because there is one there often. you might hallucinate going to the bathroom in a completely realistic, normal, fashion, while video footage would just show you staring off into space or twitching. you might hallucinate a tiger walking into the room and act accordingly, because your logic center, as in dreams, called it quits a while ago at this point. as in a dream, when you see the tiger you won't say, 'oh, i'm just tripping/dreaming' you will say, 'HOLY FUCK' and act as though you were literally attacked by a tiger in your room. which means you're running out of your house in your bare feet, possibly fainting from exertion because of your bodies decreased ability to handle it, and continuing to hallucinate. you probably won't see a reason to go back home and will continue following whatever adventures you see handy. this is why people wind up being taken to the hospital or arrested frequently because of it. the time i smoked a cigarette of foliage of it, my singular experience, i was sitting in my room after coming home from hanging out with friends and poisoning myself. i thought nothing was happening. but then my dad came downstairs and started screaming and yelling at me for what seemed like hours while i just cringed and tried to explain, confused, because he wouldn't even care if i was doing drugs. then he left and came back with a cop who simply cuffed me sitting there. my dog started pushing her water bowl around, (or maybe she didn't) and i just went and gave her water. it wasn't until i got back that i realized that i had been in the middle of being arrested a few seconds back.

you can probably figure out how to exteriorize with it. you can essentially hallucinate anything simply by thinking about it. which would be safest since then you are inert and not getting into shenanigans.

it can be ordered online real cheap. just search for 'buy datura'.

oh, and enjoy the 'phantom cigarettes'. nearly everybody gets those. they are convenient if you smoke, because they are completely free, you can have as many as you want, they don't hurt your lungs, and you can't tell they are not real. put all your smokes away beforehand, and then throw any cigarette you find yourself with at the wall and watch them vanish in a little puff of smoke. its neat.

oh, and multiple trippers can have shared hallucinations; for example, you can SHARE your imaginary cigarettes with a fellow psychonaut.

use your head and take precautions. have gatorade on hand, and just keep drinking it. tape a piece of paper to your neck indicating what you are doing, and what drugs to administer in case of severe poisoning. if your heart rate goes above 140, if your temperature goes above 105, IMMEDIATELY get into a tub of icey water; it can save your life.

[nytek]

I too have found that weed kills dreams, sometimes for several days.

Well nothing ever that bad for me... I mean that the effects only really last for 24 hours anyhow, discounting primary focus on the peak effects.

If you really want to call in the heavy guns on your exteriorization difficulty, datura will do it. it is also dangerous to some degree, but it is the main component of a 'flying ointment' that medieval (and earlier) magicians used to jump out of their skin.

Any plant of the group that contains Scopalomine, hyascamine, and atropine will do the trick. start small and use the same material as you dose, because a dose that is weak from one source will kill you dead from another. there are other plants that are added to ointment, made with a recipe that is available if you search online but that i don't know off the top of my head. just your datura/henbane/nightshade/etc should work. but ingestion is the more dangerous then skin absorption, as once it is in you, its in you, but you can wash off the ointment to slow things down. i would probably use tea, and i might start by just rolling some cigarettes with the foliage just to get the hang of it. which you definitely might need to do.

What this will do is probably knock you into a uncomfortable rest for a few hours. when you wake up, you won't really wake up. you'll keep right on dreaming whilst being awake. you will hold in depth conversations with objects that might or might not actually exist. literally anything might happen. it might last up to three or more days. or, you could think it's over and then it throws one last hallucination at you just for fun when you think you're sober. and thats the tricky thing here...

outside of a extremely dry mouth, sweating, and slight coordination problems, you'll feel normal. the hallucinations are 100% indistinguishable from reality. 100%. you will hallucinate normal things, medium things, and bizarre things. you might hallucinate a notebook on your table and not even notice it because there is one there often. you might hallucinate going to the bathroom in a completely realistic, normal, fashion, while video footage would just show you staring off into space or twitching. you might hallucinate a tiger walking into the room and act accordingly, because your logic center, as in dreams, called it quits a while ago at this point. as in a dream, when you see the tiger you won't say, 'oh, i'm just tripping/dreaming' you will say, 'HOLY FUCK' and act as though you were literally attacked by a tiger in your room. which means you're running out of your house in your bare feet, possibly fainting from exertion because of your bodies decreased ability to handle it, and continuing to hallucinate. you probably won't see a reason to go back home and will continue following whatever adventures you see handy. this is why people wind up being taken to the hospital or arrested frequently because of it. the time i smoked a cigarette of foliage of it, my singular experience, i was sitting in my room after coming home from hanging out with friends and poisoning myself. i thought nothing was happening. but then my dad came downstairs and started screaming and yelling at me for what seemed like hours while i just cringed and tried to explain, confused, because he wouldn't even care if i was doing drugs. then he left and came back with a cop who simply cuffed me sitting there. my dog started pushing her water bowl around, (or maybe she didn't) and i just went and gave her water. it wasn't until i got back that i realized that i had been in the middle of being arrested a few seconds back.

you can probably figure out how to exteriorize with it. you can essentially hallucinate anything simply by thinking about it. which would be safest since then you are inert and not getting into shenanigans.

it can be ordered online real cheap. just search for 'buy datura'.

oh, and enjoy the 'phantom cigarettes'. nearly everybody gets those. they are convenient if you smoke, because they are completely free, you can have as many as you want, they don't hurt your lungs, and you can't tell they are not real. put all your smokes away beforehand, and then throw any cigarette you find yourself with at the wall and watch them vanish in a little puff of smoke. its neat.

oh, and multiple trippers can have shared hallucinations; for example, you can SHARE your imaginary cigarettes with a fellow psychonaut.

use your head and take precautions. have gatorade on hand, and just keep drinking it. tape a piece of paper to your neck indicating what you are doing, and what drugs to administer in case of severe poisoning. if your heart rate goes above 140, if your temperature goes above 105, IMMEDIATELY get into a tub of icey water; it can save your life.

Shit, man. My friend was trying to get me into datura before he died. I dunno, it still scares me. It seems like the worst of salvia and LSD combined and the lack of control everyone seems to have in my research on erowid and in my friend's experience makes me wonder how I'd use it anyway given the jaggedness of the hallucination patterns you go through. Maybe random spirit journeys could be cool, though do you think it's viable for use in a way which won't send my plans spinning out of control?