The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums » Magick & Occult Forums » Magick & Mayhem

[nytek]

So I read something in passing lately, it triggered something, I thought of CW immediately, and then thinking I'd prefer to go straight to the BBS rather than merely chatting privately through PM, I just figured it could be most beneficial for all if a person were to post this insight here in hopes of further insight development and fruitful conversation. Or so I hope.


Okay. The number 156 is representative of Our Great Lady, or visa versa. Right.

78, being 156 in division, is the number of initiation. Also right.

Now ... 78 is also the number of the cards in any given tarot deck. We all know what the tarot itself is pictographically symbolic of, and it's real purpose as a teaching device beyond mere divination. Of course.

But... with the former mentioning of numerology still in mind ... if we also include the reversed or upside-down indications of our deck of tarot cards as being separate cards then we arrive at a sum total of 156 cards.

Ta da: "Babalon."


Ideas?

[nytek]

Consider also Atu 0 -- The Fool and his quest?

[ceewayne]

This is the thread that I brought it up with first

Babalon Numbers - or how a math minor learned about Her... - The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums

Babalon Numbers - or how a math minor learned about Her... - The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums

Also one other thought, in the Star Ruby, you invoke Babalon in the west and then say OPISÔ MOU TELETARChAI ["Behind me the Teletarches,"] while facing east. The Teletarches are the Overlords of Initiation.

All very cool and reflective of Babalon being the Initiator.

I will have more later.

[ceewayne]

More thoughts since I am on my lunch break....

Initiation is really no longer valued in western society.

The Liminal space is ignored

Initiation

In most cases, there is no longer any right of passage ceremonies. There is no mindfulness of changes in life.

Even the closest thing we have, when someone loses their virginity is no longer valued. In our sex fearing society, it has to be secret "because teenagers shouldn't do those things". it is usually rushed, it is no longer honored.

Liminality is a transitional space in one's life. To quote Wikipedia

Liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning "a threshold") The liminal state is characterized by ambiguity, openness, and indeterminacy. One's sense of identity dissolves to some extent, bringing about disorientation. Liminality is a period of transition where normal limits to thought, self-understanding, and behavior are relaxed - a situation which can lead to new perspectives.

Wikipedia (Links)

Liminal

No one cares about the liminal space. I am thinking about young adults today. They are expected to think like an adult but they don't have the life experiences. They get mocked for acting their age. Teenagers screw up.

At the same time, Alice Cooper sang about this in 1970 with the song "I'm Eighteen" so it is nothing new.

What I am saying is that I value Babalon and my relationship with Her because I have seen Her hand at these stages in my life.

More later, I am just putting things down between meetings at work as they come to me. Expect a better summary later tonight.

[nytek]

I agree. The initiation is when the teacher assumes the student is smart enough to figure out the lesson on his or her own. Today, relying on authority and approval for our lessons, borrowing experience, we limit our growth and fear folly in all forms. I've had long conversations with a friend about this same topic.

[ceewayne]

No one is allowed to fuck up.

In this era of facebook following you around for the rest of your life, when frigging schools can screw with you for things done off of school property.

Nowadays a parent has a problem with their kid, they can send them to a prison camp if you have $40K a year.

No one is letting them be kids, to be teenagers. To cut them some slack. I have a stepdaughter. I wasn't the perfect parent but at least I did not tell her she was not capable of doing something. And yes, in some ways, she fucked up. And in some ways she has done better than I ever thought possible.

(And UberKid, if you are reading this, call! We want to go out to dinner)

Ahem.

And yes, this is a sore spot for me. I was the stealth child, the middle kid. My mother would complain about not knowing what I was doing. That is the way I tried to live my life. I went through high school in 1980-1984. The things we did back then would have gotten us kicked out, if not a visit from the Chicago Police Department.

One thing that draws me to Our Lady Babalon is the valuing of my experiences. Even when I screwed up, they still go into Her Cup. Experience is what makes initiation.

I am sorry I am meandering around this topic but I still haven't sat down and figured it out. One thing that was said to me was that the best tool for figuring things out was a legal pad and a #2 pencil.

I need to put the laptop away and do some thinking.

In short, you don't screw up ever so often, you don't get experiences. No experiences, not much initiation.

[Jastiv]

Wow, that totally is how it is for me too. This whole idea of Babalon being the initiator makes sense to me in the context of my first magical successes.

I just do not want to keep making the same mistakes over and over again that is what I fear. That I am being dense and not learning anything.

[ceewayne]

I just do not want to keep making the same mistakes over and over again that is what I fear. That I am being dense and not learning anything.

I applaud the fact that you are not afraid to make mistakes. That is good. Our Experiences go into Her Chalice. Now this is just my opinion so take it as you Will.

Knowing the fact that our Experiences go into her Chalice does two things.
1. It encourages a certain degree of mindfullness in what we do. That will help us learn.
2. In encourages us to do new and wonderful things on occasion for Her. Don't do the same thing every day. Start doing something little. Take a different way home.

Some times the magickal record can be very useful for stuff like this. You can use it to see how you have changed.