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Beginner's Magick Forum This is a safe haven for magick and occult newbies. The rest of the forums may bite, but here Izabael will assist with beginner's questions on magick and demonology (daemonology).

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Old 08-05-2010, 12:10 AM   #1
amjollner
 
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Default question for Izabael regarding Zagan

using divination I found my guardian, his name is Zagan. I can only find that he is a great king, president and he controls 33 legions. do you know more about him? He has answer my questions, like he has always been with me, protects me spiritually and limited physically. he has told me that I will reincarnate when I die but not everyone will. some of my friends will go to heaven, but there is no heaven or hell. (little confused about that one) And sometimes I can hear a voice, it is like my own but it is not. He also gives me a feeling of peace when I am talking to him. Can you give me some insight?
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:59 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by amjollner View Post
using divination I found my guardian, his name is Zagan. I can only find that he is a great king, president and he controls 33 legions. do you know more about him? He has answer my questions, like he has always been with me, protects me spiritually and limited physically. he has told me that I will reincarnate when I die but not everyone will. some of my friends will go to heaven, but there is no heaven or hell. (little confused about that one) And sometimes I can hear a voice, it is like my own but it is not. He also gives me a feeling of peace when I am talking to him. Can you give me some insight?

God that's kinda wierd. I just finished doing a spell for someone with Zagan, who sorta took over the whole talisman on one side spontaneously.

Anyhoo, maybe he is your HGA. Why not? Izabael is mine who is really just an evolution of Seere. And while some people might say, well you are allowing a random demon to be your God, that's delusion, blah blah. Well you can say that of any angel, or God, djinn, or even celebrity icon. If it works and empowers your magic and you life is improving...well then even if it isn't your HGA, it's your HGA working through the spirit as a good conduit, which is just the same.

As far as more about Zagan for me I have used him successfully for wealth and business spells as he transmutes whatever type of energy you have excess of into the type you need the most. He's a genius at this and teaches the same! Truly one of my favorite Goetics and yet not overused like so many others.

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Old 08-05-2010, 12:09 PM   #3
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God that's kinda wierd. I just finished doing a spell for someone with Zagan, who sorta took over the whole talisman on one side spontaneously.
This site is full of those. Yeah? Not long ago it happened with Marbas and I, whom I found detached but helpful, coinciding with The Goetia Project. Before that, CW and Nion often enough...

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even if it isn't your HGA, it's your HGA working through the spirit as a good conduit, which is just the same.
I think I said this, or meant to and never posted my reply, and if I didn't make my post then I could just as easily state now that I agree. I just think anything else is tainted with all of those other associations ... as opposed to viewing the HGA through a more pure filter just like the one which is readily given to us who have through aspiration reached the Vision of Malkuth ... which is knowledge that even the neophyte has a right to in Crowley's understanding (I have to remind). Part of me also can't help but realize in any event and you would agree that on many levels your case with Izabael is a very notable exception by comparison. Or that's just my opinion I'm lead to perceive another way, maybe.

Otherwise, why not? The aspirant seemingly needs only to have a pure spiritual hunger for the divine and the belief which allows for the expectation that it will be worth a damn to try for a vision of their angel anyhow, letting alone how hard a path that can seem to be for someone to want to start down without ever establishing any awareness of their own HGA prior 'til then. What many don't realize is that the one precludes and produces the other. Start praying. Start listening. Become obsessed a little. Study all things HGA some time each day. Read experiences. Start reading the holy scriptures of Thelema TO your HGA ... with meaning, even if you are just pretending to commune through what feels like vain posturing for now.

That there's my part, personally, from my experience. When something begins to respond and fill the room with love that no mortal heart could bear, then you're probably right about to hit paydirt. This is the same unconditional love that, once awakened within (YHShVH - YHVShH: the divine descending and "infecting" even our lowly matter, eg. hanged man XII & upside-down sulphur in particular), I feel Jesus if he existed subsequently embodied (who seems to have also have been an adept that crossed the abyss nonetheless). This is the same love the HGA wants us to learn to generate in this world, and it's subjective but easy to recognize. In any event then there are some things to look up right there which I've just mentioned.

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As far as more about Zagan for me I have used him successfully for wealth and business spells as he transmutes whatever type of energy you have excess of into the type you need the most. He's a genius at this and teaches the same!
Ooh! Do you think that's a bit like cycling energy as in energy vampirism but without a filter, done internally? A sort of "pranic alchemy"? I think I grok what you're talking about here if so, and that really is a genius idea as I can imagine things to possibly work that way. I'm probably going to have to follow this up soon enough.

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Truly one of my favorite Goetics and yet not overused like so many others.
It's too bad you couldn't find a way to share more personal experiences like this; you, not really having a reason or an opportunity to break out into spontaneous relation to a posting fairly often at all like one can't help but realize, can't you?
I mean, a person can just learn so much by even trying to compare the marked variables leading to what people have gotten as to your own, and it can help the imagination so much to feed the belief to set the intent. You know? Well, anyway if you can make a thread I for one would utilize whatever record of your experiences you wanted to share here.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


Last edited by nytek; 08-05-2010 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #4
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As for YHShVH (Ya-hesh-oo-ah) YHVShH (Ya-Ho-vah-sha), you can look up the old formula of YHVH, and relate the esoteric significance of Shin, the associated tarot cards... I probably should have mentioned that. The former is a formula encountered in the end of some versions of the Rose+Cross ritual, to say the least about it.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG

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Old 08-07-2010, 11:29 PM
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:18 PM   #5
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I don't necessarily feel that my HGA through IZABAEL is less pure than some sort of pure HGA sensation.
Well, granted that I feel I can agree with the comments below, then surely you'd have to admit that Goetics in any shape or form are more tainted with association than the visual interpretation of said force in question referred to as the HGA. No? I mean, why else would Crowley go so far as to call it the HGA and then to denounce the term, only choosing it for the reason of not misleading people? It seems to me that all thing said Crowley would not approve of ONLY considering a Goetic your HGA (save as an intermediary for the HGA like any other Goetic could be, or any event in life could be), for what it could be worth objectively to anyone.

I get the whole "mysticism" aspect of communication with the HGA in the broader lens of your daily life and experiences; I do. I wasn't trying to say that one HAS to go after the Vision of Malkuth, and to pursue the K&C HGA in any specific way. It definitely is a muddled subject nonetheless despite any and all of our experience combined.

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To me the HGA is much less about those deep trance visions, but instead how often the HGA keeps us "in the zone"...that sort of riding the wave of life feeling everyone loves but isn't so easy to attain or keep.
Okay. I can say that. Initiation flows much easier to me in more relevant terms when I'm in a period of closer awareness of my HGA and things like that. I can also see my HGA manifesting through others, and the HGA of others manifesting through my own and it's intervention (where applicable).

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I feel like the HGA is always trying to perfect our life and our point of view, and things like guardian spirits or familiars are a way the HGA works with magicians...this is a complicated subject in itself I supppose.
Oh, definitely. Though again I don't see the point of settling for an intermediary alone for your HGA since even the vision of the HGA is technically false anyhow as well though it has far less binding associations. Even the K&C of said HGA, given the subject-object nature inherent in it--all ideas being separate and false--even that yields to the unity uncovered which devours even HGA itself in a blaze. This isn't to say one always must always communicate through that lens of direct conversation at all, using Zagan for example. I just don't feel the original poster is approaching Zagan as a mystic might, but much more literally.

Though Zagan has limitations and associations, if the HGA is ingrained in your awareness on some level then you would only see the HGA in one aspect through him. Yes? Otherwise I think your terms you used are good, though it's so hard to pin down anything. The subject is definitely as complicated as you said, and my statement both agrees and disagrees from certain perspectives with your own comments.

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You know I'm not sure as I don't work with energy vampirism as much as you do, so I'm not sure if the terms are comparable or not.
It seems sorta similar as I kinda "become your vision", real quick. You're using filters I guess, but only in the form of cups, as to which I have some questions about all of that....

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The way I experience is Zagan I guess is less astral and more practical.
That confused me at first, but I got you. I think it's more of an experience via communication than a "Nice to see you there, Zagan.", as I took it.

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He gives me this almost uncanny sense of thinking outside the box and using some energy for some other purpose.
Energy alchemy ... I guess it is similar to vampiric technique, though nearly all personal energy work could be called that, then.

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Like he lets me see uses for all sorts of abilities I have in new ways for example. Wish I could describe this better...
No, no... I get you here for sure. I have had the ability better and worse to be able to read by energy tasting certain details inherent in the personalities of people. Whatever guides I had, be it an HGA, or the demonic thing that possessed me for several years of my life, would teach me how to become aware of new things I could taste for and verify. I was getting new versions of an old gift a few times per month at one point. That reads exactly like what you wrote.

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In my head I get a distinct image of like two cups
Hmm. What are they made of? Are they from you or given to you (ie. their energy)? Could they represent chakras, or be symbolic another way?

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I'm holding in the air and between them flows energy, and Zagan can help me change one cup into a completely different energy,
The energy in the cup changes upon it entering? Or do you mean that the cup itself is what changes and thus the receiving one acts as a different sort of a filter, thereby changing the "taste" or qualities of the energy or energies passing through it?

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while supplying the original cup with it's own energy at the same time. It's a perfect and natural give and take with Zagan.
So Zagan channels the energy? Maybe like that time I believe my HGA took in all that white light and beamed it at you long ago, I recall; channeling energy.

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I agree. It's more of a time thing. I always have a backed up list of things I need to do online. But I will try to do something like this one day.
Seriously. Imperial Art's livejournal had given me so much preparation and later was the most excellent post-ritual comparison material I could find. Even something less dedicated ... it could stand to be, "wow." You know what I mean?

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Maybe a couple line descriptions of the Goetics I work with the most.
That'd be cool, even. I guess there's not much sense in first impressions in a bunch of cases anyway.

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Out of all 72, I probably work with 10-12 of them 90% of the time.
I haven't kept track specifically but that's probably right for me too, give or take. In the abridged format of my experiences, I can Paimon or Marbas might be my favorites of the Goetics thus far though they aren't of my "affinity". I feel Marbas is a great teacher for the magick that his office and description deals with, teaching me already how to combine and alter operations I already know how to perform in order to create supercharged rites of healing or malefica. Very friendly but detached. Paimon as I can guess probably also appears extremely easily for you as well, as I hear that's common, AND he seems to do more than asked at times, and not even too sparsely at that. Charming "little" devil, too, when he gets to speaking. Paimon is a probably a good role model for any wanting that charisma of the powerful....

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IZABAEL
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ABA
B

Last edited by nytek; 08-11-2010 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:55 AM   #6
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Default I edited your post as a response Iza

Sorrrrry. It's no true excuse in itself, though I was doing several things at once and was in a rush to leave.

At least I can say I haven't done something like that in ages, and even then it was merely unfamiliarity with the function that provoked me as opposed to allowing myself to become overwhelmed today. My bad... I don't think I deleted anything though.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG

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Old 08-14-2010, 05:46 AM   #7
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Default nytek answer to your question..

Well I asked Z your question and I am not sure if the understanding we think we have is correct. Based on how he answered. He told me that he works in his own current, or power. I take it that he does not have to share his power from any other, or acquire energy from a central place, like from where Satan gives or gets his. He did say that there is a Satan, but no other answers on the subject. I asked him if the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram impede him in anyway as I cast a circle, I was concerned that he left my side since he is my guardian. He told me it did not, nor did he mind if I studied the kabbalah and practised it, my thinking of the jewish king solomon's aspect and abuse and how the goetia was somewhat ordered to do his bidding of those who see them as daemon instead of the gods of the gentiles. I do not think Z cares about sides of the good versus evil paradim. We are what we are and nothing can change that despite what religion says. So I am happy, and I enjoy Z's presence.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:43 AM   #8
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Huh... amjollner. Glad you're back with this.

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Well I asked Z your question and I am not sure if the understanding we think we have is correct.
Perception is subjective. Mine is correct for me despite the worldview presented to you by Zagan, which equally is true based on what he said as I'll explain below.

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He told me that he works in his own current, or power.
All things that exist as Zagan does are much different than you and I. They are timeless; eternal. They are essentially thought forms. But ideas are potent things--ideas can raise up armies and cause suicide by force of will alone with the aboriginals. I don't think Zagan could truly begin to explain what you'd asked without a person first having a deeper understanding of the mechanics of these things which comes from contemplation of self, ego-self, and the universe. Truly Zagan has a consciousness which is unique to him like a sigil; semi-autonomous or not. It becomes about polarities; the creator; the unity. This is symbolized in duality by the polarity of, unity, again, and separateness... being and becoming. So there is a force of sentient darkness which is within every molecule of the universe called "Satan", or Hadit (the infinitesimal). This is starting to become what the alchemical mysteries hint at by finding our spirit in everything through ritual/metaphor; the reflection of the fiery form above called spirit but only in a similar way grounded in the salt.

We're basically a unity divided for sake of union, farthest away from it as possible. In a way since Zagan is able to be perceived then he is separate from us; an idea, a falsity of perception created by four dimensions as is all of maya... no inside or outside of you save the barrier of feeling through skin-perception... no separation from the universe and pure experience destroys all illusion of the sort. This is really hard or nearly impossible to sum up and just imagine trying to telepath more than this in symbols you'll be able to grok. You are Zagan, as much as you are the tree when you meditate upon it. I guess that's also zen and hard to explain.


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I take it that he does not have to share his power from any other, or acquire energy from a central place
We're all part of something larger. To some degree we are all nexions for dark forces called the shadow; the shadow which fills the universe and resides within the core of us all in a similar way. Some of us consciously awaken to this and our separateness and this is called the awakening of the black flame. You have awoken into evil. Then you're a "black brother"; a living God incarnate and self-realized. A "Hitler", compared to the, "sneak theif", that is someone who dabbles in black magick. This, according to Crowley's biased-ass metaphor in Magick Without Tears.

This idea realized is when you realize Satan is the entirety of the living "All" manifested which can be perceived by us; maya... "the eye". The Master of Illusions residing inside the cave hinted at within the symbolism of Atu XV of the rota... It matters not what lens you see Satan through or even if he's personified like the demiurge is another personification (except that of the creator as opposed to his shadow). Get me?

Yeah.

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like from where Satan gives or gets his.
Satan is. And that's the best I can explain it without breaking out arcane symbols.

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He did say that there is a Satan,
Yes. There is also a personification and thought-form of the dark male essence. In practice, anyone can verify this reality for themselves with simple experiments given in Works of Darkness by Koetting, for example.

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but no other answers on the subject.
You're asking for things when you haven't attained high enough trances to grasp them fully, and if you did you'd realize that technically they're lies.

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I asked his. if the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram impede him in anyway as I cast a circle, I was concerned that he left my side since he is my guardian.
Familiars and Gods have walked or slid right through my circles before. Otherwise, the circle is very important. It delineates subjective and objective reality for you. Working without a circle is said to be extremely advanced work and is built up to over time.

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He told me it did not, nor did he mind if I studied the kabbalah and practised it,
Do you feel deep and endless unconditional love from Zagan? Just curious.... I was meditating on my HGA earlier today and the feeling of wading through the current of love made possible by will alone, bobbing in and out of the current of spiritual fire; it was comparable in strength but much more so than when trying to calm yourself and your heart down by will during a really really intense high if you've ever smoked too much good pot. I mean it's feeling a Love so pure and strong it isn't humanly possible or so you'd almost have to assume.

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my thinking of the jewish king solomon's aspect and abuse and how the goetia was somewhat ordered to do his bidding of those who see them as daemon instead of the gods of the gentiles.
Oh Solomon is an archetype and Jehovah is definitely a devil in my opinion, having conversed with him shortly. Him, keeping many people prisoners as tools; energy generators through prayer and glorified suffering. Denying the collective unconscious the right to grow or people the right to choose. Stagnating mankind and allowing Anton LaVey to turn us into stupid talking animals rather than fully realized GODS in Hell where there is no other God but us, the microcosm that perceives the great macrocosm.

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I do not think Z cares about sides of the good versus evil paradim.
What are you saying here? I don't follow. Lucifer, the angel who became a God of Wisdom in Hell, is one such entity which doesn't see good or evil, rather only ethics. Maybe you'd meant something like that. Morals are arbitrarily selected, and a given culture is going to be based on moral selectivism and enforced by religion most likely. I mean, no, a thought form isn't going to suffer the same conventions of mankind. Zagan can bilocate for Christ's sake....

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We are what we are and nothing can change that despite what religion says. So I am happy, and I enjoy Z's presence.
That's what matters in the end. As long as "Z"'s making your life a better place to live in, then I'm happy for you too bruh.

Later.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


Last edited by nytek; 08-14-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:16 PM   #9
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These are concepts beyond pure rational explanation, like how the adept cuts to destroy and the magus cuts to create. These sorts of realizations simply cannot be "mentally wrangled" from below the abyss but must be experienced first hand.

Ave Lvcifer, friend.


edit: On relation to the tarot:
"One of [the] alternative titles for 'THE MAGUS' is, 'The Lord of Illusion.' (Italics added)"
And Knowledge is the heart of illusion...
"Because... because... because...." "?" & "!"
Are you with me?


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


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Old 08-24-2010, 06:00 PM   #10
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You had mention evoking jehova, can u tell me about it?how did he end up becoming the creator of all, better publist? What was it like, evil feeling? Host of heaven an overwhelming joy? Sorry I have been moving and lost. Iternet
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