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Aleister Crowley, Thelema, Crowleyanity, Abrahadabra Discuss anything about the single greatest force in promulgating magick of all time, The Great Beast (Master Therion), a.k.a. V.V.V.V.V (Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici -- "While still living, I have conquered the universe by dint of truth.") and Perdurabo ("I Will endure unto the end.")

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Old 04-25-2010, 02:51 PM   #1
Adam Kadmon
 
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Default Does the world need Thellema? Bah...

NO IT DOES NOT.
Or if it does, Thelema needs a makeover
freely read the more on this story here...
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=532549385
but for now suffice it to say...

History proves it again and again...
Every Religion falls and time wounds all Laws,
but Thelema has set a new record.
A mere hundred years later and it's already mostly rotten.
I guess that's what happens when we promote
a mere amendment as a complete religion unto itself...
Our church gets stolen and corruption runs free.
Too bad Crowley didn't teach us to be mindful of our history.
At least Judiasm and Islam had their golden age.

Today, for all it's beauty, Liber Al is usually misread
as yet another excuse to let tyranny corruption and greed
run rampant in this fallen society of Might Makes Right.

Personal Liberty is a sacrosanct Law,
but the greatest threat to any freedom loving people
are power-hungry dictators. All it takes to sink a ship
is one loose cannon, Hitler or Stalin and we've got
thousands of them storming across our deck.
Well the tides are rising and the sea is coming in.
Let's put down the book and clean up the mess.

Down with the tyranny! Power to the humble!
Long live the little flowers!
Short lived the reign of terror!

Besides,

A SOCIETY THAT LETS INJUSTICE RULE
IS CULPABLE FOR DENYING THE LAW.

Thus, when power is abused & Justice isn't served,
the balance will fall to the rest of us
so the pit may still be fed it's due.



Then, a voracious, predatory, indiscriminate Doom
shall turn upon an unsuspecting society
to claim it's rightful meal.

Everyone reaps what everyone sews.
but when tyrants run free, everyone suffers.
It is quite simply a Law of Nature.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:27 PM   #2
Adam Kadmon
 
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You write pretty good. Now learn to spell doofus. hahaha
I misspelled Thelema. Fitting actually if we consider the fact that most people these days seem to do the much the same thing when they quote the scripture... they uphold the fnord and disregard the word. Does anybody remember what a fnord is? I don't think they no teach that anymore either?
Here's a classic example...

DO WHAT THOU WILT.
Of course we've all read that it doesn't mean do whatever you want so much as finding the core of our being and doing as that drop dictates. And yet It is supposed to be a message of liberty for all but instead, the doctrine seems to have been perverted into the means to let tyrants run free to do whatever they want, which is, of course, the antitheses of liberty for all.

Tyranny is mankind's greatest enemy, and since power corrupts, even our wisest of wise-men are susceptible
.
Now... the word THOU in it's most literal sense means the plural of YOU like YOU ALL or THE COLLECTIVE. Might it not DO WHAT THOU WILT then also be interpreted as meaning that
we should do as the providence of the collective deems best ?
Or, as I always like to say,

STRIVE TO SERVE THE GREATER GOOD.

Which is the Word and which is the fnord? That's up to you to decide, but remember, wherever the word of God shall go, SSATAN is sure to follow, and that dude is very good at what he does. Here's another one for you... straight from the Master Therion's comment thereof

"The study of this book is forbidden, It is wise to destroy this copy after the first reading.
Whosoever disregards this does so at his own risk and peril. These are most dire.
Those who discuss the condense of this book are to be shunned by all, as centers of pestilence.
All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself."

Which is the Fnord and which is the Word? you decide.
Or was it just a clever ploy to drive up sales?


Last edited by Adam Kadmon; 04-25-2010 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Adam Kadmon View Post
[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=3]

[B]DO WHAT THOU WILT.
Of course we've all read that it doesn't mean do whatever you want so much as finding the core of our being and doing as that drop dictates. And yet It is supposed to be a message of liberty for all but instead, the doctrine seems to have been perverted into the means to let tyrants run free to do whatever they want, which is, of course, the antitheses of liberty for all.

Tyranny is mankind's greatest enemy, and since power corrupts, even our wisest of wise-men are susceptible
.
Now... the word THOU in it's most literal sense means the plural of YOU like YOU ALL or THE COLLECTIVE. Might it not DO WHAT THOU WILT then also be interpreted as meaning that
we should do as the providence of the collective deems best ?
Or, as I always like to say,

STRIVE TO SERVE THE GREATER GOOD.
It's nice to see contrary opinions on Thelema around here.

I don't see that anyone but idiots utilizes Thelema to dominate or tyranize others. Do What Thou Wilt is certainly about the greater good of the planet, not a call for each individual to go stir crazy striding willy-nilly over everyone else's rights. Sounds to me your real beef is with the OTO and other "official" orders, and not actual practicing Thelemites like myself who go by the spirit of "the Law."

xoxo
Iza

B
ABA
ZABAE
IZABAEL
ZABAE
ABA
B
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:55 PM   #4
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Sounds to me your real beef is with the OTO and other "official" orders, and not actual practicing Thelemites like myself who go by the spirit of "the Law."
Funny timing this. I am thinking of joining the local OTO body here. Part of me would like the community but everyone's Thelema is different. From what I have seen they don't strike me as dogmatic but I am still thinking about it.

On the other hand, they do offer public rituals that you do not have to be a member to attend.

More stuff to think about.

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ceewayne View Post
Sounds to me your real beef is with the OTO and other "official" orders, and not actual practicing Thelemites like myself who go by the spirit of "the Law."
Thanks Chris- I would say, Stay away. You can find qualified magical instructions online without too much surfing and stay charming and interesting. I never enlisted either but the public forums can be very helpful. Nah, not dogmatic, just not healthy. Even my closest and most respected friends in the Order... or disorder as the case may be, I now see as being either partial perpetrators of what seems wrong with the world or as inadequate contributors towards a working solution.

Nah...Centers of pestilence, buddy.
I say take what you need when you can
but don't pledge your life to it,
But then again, what do I know?
I'm just a foolish little comedian.

Last edited by Adam Kadmon; 04-28-2010 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Izabael DaJinn View Post
It's nice to see contrary opinions on Thelema around here.
I don't see that anyone but idiots utilizes Thelema to dominate or tyranize others.
Thanks Lisa, yeah... the problem started within the Order itself. From what I've gathered, after Crowley died the claims to heads of the order were stolen by some very unsavory characters. Then, it looks to me like probably they started feeding everyone a doctrine to perpetrate silent fear in the lower ranks and a belief throughout the globe that Do what thou wilt means every man for himself. Then in 1980, they took over the government completely and removed all the old checks and balances designed to prevent people from abusing their power, because... you know, that's the way tyrants like it.
Now, the magical world runs rampant with corruption and the A.A... well, they're mostly either perpetrators of the problem or iinadequate contributors towards a working solution.

And yet... NO! The problem is the whole damn thing.
You say you practice the spirit of Thelema and you may be A.A. but with all due respect, I think you're missing the point, cutie.

Believe it or not...Thelema is to the Quran...
what Christianity was to the Old Testament!.

Essentially the doctrine Jesus brought was merely an affirmation of lineage to the tradition of Abraham and a profound new message of Universal Equality. Aside from a few good prophecy and nice little parables, the rest was mostly fnord, riddles or garbage.

At it's core, Thelema is just a message of Liberty for All upon the Rock of our One Good Book. The rest can be read once and just as soon forgotten...
Aside from a few good prophecy, it's mostly just fnord, riddles or garbage.
Interestingly enough, they both underwent similar transformation after their creation and the houses that Crowley and St Peter had built in the name of Liberty, became an edifice of oppression and a citadels of power for global corruption.
As a current religion, they are both all wrong. Perpetrating their study or singing their praise merely feeds the disease. . The message is Liberty. The rest of the Liber is part of the problem.
Don't believe the fnord they feed you. Be a part of the solution.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=411706409& blogId=532549385
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=532548893
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Old 04-29-2010, 03:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Adam Kadmon View Post
Thanks Chris- I would say, Stay away. You can find qualified magical instructions online without too much surfing and stay charming and interesting. I never enlisted either but the public forums can be very helpful. Nah, not dogmatic, just not healthy. Even my closest and most respected friends in the Order... or disorder as the case may be, I now see as being either partial perpetrators of what seems wrong with the world or as inadequate contributors towards a working solution.

Nah...Centers of pestilence, buddy.
I say take what you need when you can
but don't pledge your life to it,
But then again, what do I know?
I'm just a foolish little comedian.
It is not really magical instruction, like you said, there is so much online. I remember when I started back in the 80's and had to have a coworker translate the Greek in the Star Ruby. Now, go to youtube and watch a video. Between that and Something Else, I am pretty well covered.

It is a sense of a community I guess I am looking for, not to sound too sappy about it. We shall see. Also the big problem is, just time. Between this and work and everything else, it is almost I have to schedule Face Time with my wife.

You have given something to think about, but that is what is wonderful about this forum.

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:56 PM   #8
Izabael DaJinn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Kadmon View Post
Thanks Lisa, yeah... the problem started within the Order itself. From what I've gathered, after Crowley died the claims to heads of the order were stolen by some very unsavory characters. Then, it looks to me like probably they started feeding everyone a doctrine to perpetrate silent fear in the lower ranks and a belief throughout the globe that Do what thou wilt means every man for himself. Then in 1980, they took over the government completely and removed all the old checks and balances designed to prevent people from abusing their power, because... you know, that's the way tyrants like it.
Now, the magical world runs rampant with corruption and the A.A... well, they're mostly either perpetrators of the problem or iinadequate contributors towards a working solution.

And yet... NO! The problem is the whole damn thing.
You say you practice the spirit of Thelema and you may be A.A. but with all due respect, I think you're missing the point, cutie.

Believe it or not...Thelema is to the Quran...
what Christianity was to the Old Testament!.

Essentially the doctrine Jesus brought was merely an affirmation of lineage to the tradition of Abraham and a profound new message of Universal Equality. Aside from a few good prophecy and nice little parables, the rest was mostly fnord, riddles or garbage.

At it's core, Thelema is just a message of Liberty for All upon the Rock of our One Good Book. The rest can be read once and just as soon forgotten...
Aside from a few good prophecy, it's mostly just fnord, riddles or garbage.
Interestingly enough, they both underwent similar transformation after their creation and the houses that Crowley and St Peter had built in the name of Liberty, became an edifice of oppression and a citadels of power for global corruption.
As a current religion, they are both all wrong. Perpetrating their study or singing their praise merely feeds the disease. . The message is Liberty. The rest of the Liber is part of the problem.
Don't believe the fnord they feed you. Be a part of the solution.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=411706409& blogId=532549385
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=532548893

The very fact you are here voicing your own point of view, which is an expression of your will, proves the validity of Thelema. You can't argue against Thelema for by attempting to do so, you assert your will, thus validating Thelema's core principle, Do What Thou Wilt.


xoxo
Iza

B
ABA
ZABAE
IZABAEL
ZABAE
ABA
B
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:01 PM   #9
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Default :/

Care,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Interesting. And here all this time I thought it was the Illuminati that infiltrated the government. No, wait, that was the Freemasons; or was it the Zionists? No, I'm pretty sure it was industrialization, and companies that did that. Come on, man. Yes the government is corrupt, and yes I have no doubt that there are some unsavory characters running the show on a global scale, but some of this is a little left field. Everyone finds something to use as a scape goat, and to blame all the issues on. You're just blaming Thelemic organizations. Which is it? A.'.A.'., or OTO? Which OTO, and which Lineage? Where do you get this from?
The biggest question, scholar of Thelema, what are you doing to fix the problem? (And no, blogs, rants, etc. don't count--I mean on the ground level) Never present a problem without a solution.....
Love is the law, love under will.
Frater Culebero
PS-I'm curious some your interpretations from Liber AL.
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Old 05-15-2010, 11:06 AM   #10
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Outstanding reply. Thank you.
My beef with Thelema specifically is with how it is practiced and preached as an excuse to let tyranny ravage our once great nation.

Who do I blame?
The "OTO inc." Beta, Breeze and the rest of the corrupt band of military dictators at the core of the organization who have sucked the blood of the order's founders, stolen the copy writes to Crowley's work and their titles as Heads of the Order, and now have gone so far as attempting to plunder Mankind's unborn final Temple and baring all of humanity from the Promised Land lest they first secure for themselves dominion over the entire Kingdom.

What's my solution?
Regime change would be nice.
Also a truly righteous magical society based on a communal civic duty of fighting against tyranny and oppression wherever it surfaces. Should we attempt to do it as individuals, we risk falling prey to the allure of abusing our power and becoming tyrants ourselves. The key to a righteous society is through communal civic duty.






On what do I base my claims?
On the fact that they currently hold the keys to power over our government which were stolen from the Knights Templar 700 years ago and have been held by the Vatican ever since.

What am I doing about it?
This isn't study hall, man
I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I'm a conspiracy activist. And a damn good one at that.
Wait and see. Better yet, don't wait. Do your daily duty fighting against tyranny, even if it means being among the few who spend an afternoon on the rack as a result and petition the rest of this fallen society to do the same for a change. Then petition for regime change within that corrupt shell of a Magical Order... or, as the case may be, disorder.

Thank you again.
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