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Beginner's Magick Forum This is a safe haven for magick and occult newbies. The rest of the forums may bite, but here Izabael will assist with beginner's questions on magick and demonology (daemonology).

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:57 PM   #21
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I did answer this once before, but my viewpoint to me is different now.

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Originally Posted by The Fool View Post
I'm not so down with spells to get others to do our bidding.
Like, "at all"? If not, I think a lot of people feel that way. If so I get your sentiment as it's a common one in our community and I respect your drive, as I appreciate the earlier postings that clarified to me that it's not THAT an animal is killed that creeps people out, it's solely the why of it which being a chance to reflect was also pretty insightful for me by the way...

... but still. Normally, speaking to you as a Thelemite, I have to say truthfully there are practically no justifiable reasons for this type of black magick to be done. However there are some reasons much more easy to rationalize than others when it comes to bending a certain person's will. You see ... Over the months I'd tried various methods to curse and eventually bind this one hateful hateful manager who likes to abuse his power, and this manager was someone who favored some much less than he did pamper others. He took great joy in sadistically affecting someone I know who happened to be close to me for years now, and it happened without sign of relent it was revealed to me. Let's just say this person was stuck in their job too for various factors that might affect a person.

Actually I just heard on this camping trip I took recently that the other day the target got stuck in the elevator at work for a few hours when it broke after he had been chewing out some people over his own mistake for a good while. He's been like that and worse (think: "open bragging of subterfuge and future plots against co-workers"), when he's not bouncing from minor illness to minor illness.

And why mention that? Because I want you to moralize the shit out of it and ignore everything else and any good points I may make? Not really. It's because unsurprisingly cursing didn't work for my intentions, nor did drastic life changes, or bouts of thumbsucking.

So I found couldn't smash him well enough to do anything lasting. If he got sick, he'd get better, and actually come to work while still ill. Of course I wasn't aiming for misfortune like Leukemia mind you. Bound as he was though, his personality is still that of an effeminate bitchy gay queen with this domineering undertone in all of his actions (I've gotten to meet him once). The binding kept him busy with illness or with work or with scheduling... but okay, he just suffered more struggling against his bonds. I was finally ready after preparation to evoke Zazel of Saturn to remove him from the job, and I was like, "why am I doing all of this damn work?", like they're actually going to then hire someone better given the company track history for his position without much effort and with less confidence for it than the alternative which just so happens to be will-bending.

It actually wasn't until a little last minute will-bending with the marvelous aide of probably the strongest guy in the good book, Paimon, and one or two KoF friends I put on him that now ... let's just say that hellish position at work has done a 180 degree turn and now the formerly blocked and denied managerial positions which were given to underqualified people ... are actually being prepared due to one other manager suddenly leaving for another job. A position has opened up, AND the target manager pushed specifically for her to fill that spot. The person is training for their promotion even now. In their name I got exactly what I asked for, and even better since this managerial spot magickally opened up like it did.

I heard that the benefactor of the operations went on to somewhat recently also be gifted a paid day off for their birthday -- and nobody has gotten that in company history. When this person actually was sick that once hateful manager txted them just to say they hoped they would feel better soon. It wasn't even a strictly work related text! If I'm going to Thelemic Hell for not allowing some asshole to Do What He Pleases and making some lemonade from the situation then I'm happy to go to the Thelemic land of brimstone and fire for what I feel was a good cause. That said, like the murdering Buddha that saved 100 men for the price of one would-be killer, we can rationalize that thanks to me someone's will is actually unimpeded now. Will bending was a strong positive here though it's taboo.

I mean it's not like I ever go around making Haitian voodoo style zombies to be my slaves, or shit like that. Do any of you? Ignoring terms like white and black for now, how sinister your deed is depends only your own self and your intentions. You know when you're being a real evil self-serving prick or not, or you should try to keep tabs on it anyway. Because if white and black magick is to many claimed to be something based on intention and perspective then why is the bending of the will seemingly in a moral vacuum off by itself? Pleasure and restriction, good and evil, dogma with virtue... ignoring those common reality tunnels, did I not then from another point of view help a score of oppressed people seek their freedom or at least provide the lot of them with revenge by initiating the karmic changes I have? This last bit I mentioned as I know some other employees there too, so my quasi-altruism is actually somewhat practical more so than it being some brand of "bleeding-heart" sympathy. I try not to confuse myself with Mother Theresa. I just know that a person in my opinion shouldn't go around trying to solve for each individual their problems.

Further if anyone wants to become immune to this sort of black magick -- get to know yourself. Stare hard and long into the abyss and let it cast it's gaze back on you.

Communicating with spirits from evocation to possession also greatly helped me and any of you out there to become more acutely aware of thoughts and emotions that don't originate from self but come from "other". The more and more aware of your internal processes you are becoming, then the more you can just find yourself ... becoming aware of certain actual psychic attacks as opposed to the more common paranoia. You will observe consciously manipulation all around you, so we can each choose when it's more beneficial to yield to manipulation as that is for sure a part of life to judge or ignore completely as we each see fit. How about that though? The answer to me then is not "don't bend Man's will", it's "Man, know thyself". The answer can be found in intellectual enlightenment rather than binding our own hands even when they would serve us and those we consider true friends and family.

Really. Is it fair that some douchbag named Brock Windsor who's trustfund got him an awesome Porsche, who also comes from well connected and a rich type of sort, or instead maybe some totally horrible shallow superficial and ignorant but pretty girl charms her way into that very same position on looks and sex appeal and ... using that for will bending purposes since they both are underqualified as it turns out. Sounds far fetched maybe ... but it isn't. I've seen two short documentaries by students that showed preferential treatment even to the point of the female model having a guy step away from his wife to go help the pretty young girl that is obviously stealing a bike. Life is unfair. In some cases you can say you are just leveling the playing field. True Will, by the way, is so messy and sloppily defined like the "Holy" Guardian Angel, that I don't even often consider that concept in depth with others but only for myself most of the time.
Quote:
Sometimes that works, because it was their True Will anyway.
I disagree. If I show you a cheeseburger and tell you to eat it but you're on a vegetarian diet, you will resist. Is it anyone's true will to succumb to certain marketing ads over others? I mean the commercial is designed to bend your will by getting you to think, feel, and do something and that, obviously. Make up clearly begs for sexualization as it mimics the sexual response. But to do the same thing with magick is a no-no...? There's a difference between that and some of the stuff I've heard about.

But... if a certain corporate entity were to put you through the process of desiring that fast food fix then you yourself will choose to act on it. Manipulation is never external. We are self-hypnosis machines, and the job of anyone manipulating anyone else is merely to capture and lead their imagination... whether they lead it to heaven or hell depends on the motivation desired.

As Eskmak said, and only in that case in my opinion, motivation through domination is by, "or else", but not so for the rest of the lot of tricks. Now I don't know if you're reading this you can change your own mind (lol) though to me persuasion is not yielding to "True Will", when a person does act, so much as yielding to the skillful evocation of their internal processes. A good deal of magick involving others turns their own minds back against said person the spell was placed upon in my experience. Understand self--understand others. Understand others--communicate more deeply.

I mean, even a person's own hobbies and talents through metaphors can be used "against them" to soften their disapproval; ie to overcome. If they're into airplanes (they're a pilot), you can say, "Now... I don't know if this is going to FLY WITH YOU, but...". The mind deep inside you says, "He's talking about ME! He must have something important to say that relates to me. I should listen closely. *trance*." Just imagine the persuasion you can pull off if you can also work directly upon a person's aura and use telepathy, or pulling on astral cords. Just ask a succubus.

Up above I don't think I have any major holes in my logic, though forgive me if it turns out that's the case since I haven't slept in a day since a camping trip. I still wanted to add this in though given my recent experiences compiled upon my past studies in behavior.

Quote:
Invocation for Love


Once a day (preferably in the morning or before bed), draw the Venus symbol upon a mirror with the tip of your forefinger, and then say:

So mote it be!”
Finish by making the Sign of Silence.
(The blank space in the previous invocation is reserved for the name of someone you love or have a crush on. This can be someone you know in person, a fantasy, or even a celebrity. Choose someone who incites your strongest passions, but be open to the universe bringing you someone better suited for you.)
I would add from my own slant to really take your time and pause after each sentence to imagine and formulate your will and liquify it. Send that feeling you are really feeling which arises and is connected with your desire out from within you and over into the symbol in the mirror through your third eye, which is seated between or just above the eyes. You don't "try" to do this technique, you just intend it while going through the motions and so it happens. It'd probably also do you or anyone else reading this some good to actually do a week of devotional work toward, say, Apollo. Something like that's needed unless your subconscious already perceives and recognizes Apollo as a being and not merely a concept. If you have the mental ninja skills to do otherwise without heavy immersion, go for it.

Quote:
Make sure you do the relaxation part of NAP or something similar before you start. I just say out loud, “As I now relax, I feel the subconscious power of my Divine and Higher Self arise, easily and without conscious effort” and then relax for five minutes and then do the invocation.
Hmm. Wow. What a simple but elegant adjustment. I know the power of affirmation and what you put there seems to be a big improvement over the wording contained in the original. In fact I'm going to use that style from now on most likely, though instead I will say to myself, "As you now relax...", etc., as it's been proven to be more hypnotic to approach yourself in that person, and harder to deny on any level. We've all tried affirmations and then you get that silent subconscious fact checking voice, "No you're not." Now it's not so easy to trip that alarm anymore you might also find.

<3Nytek


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


Last edited by nytek; 07-14-2010 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agata View Post
Izabael, I am new here and also to high magic.
[falsetto voice]
Hi, Agata.
[/end falsetto]
(*ahem*)
So...

Quote:
Thank you so much for posting this.
I agree. The decision to make the post has helped a bunch of people so far already, and we can guess many more have not written than have.

Quote:
I had to share my experience with you.
My husband has been buying American Indian cigarettes and has become more than fond of a particular brand, so we drove up to the reservation this morning. The stand didn't have them. Now I realize cigarettes may not seem important but he really was counting on them and my heart went out to him. After he tried several other stands it didn't look so good.
My good friend is like that with cigarettes. I understand your motivation.

Quote:
I figured I should give the NAP a try.
*power is crackling to life before your eyes*

Quote:
I read the four minute piece, closed my eyes and suddenly the sun felt brighter and I just felt happy. I didn't do the LBRP or any thing. I didn't even give it the five minutes; maybe a few seconds at best, so I didn't expect much.
I have a good writing friend who has been practicing as much and as long as myself. Though he's learned it, he is repelled by ritual and does nearly the same thing as you with his informality to a great result where I often choose not to in conversation. So many things can be ritualized and it's such pleasure to me anyhow. But it's not for everyone.

On the aside, you ought to at least learn some cleansing techniques if you haven't already in my opinion. Do what you want of course, but LBRP holds the importance it does in ceremonial magick because it really is all the things you've never realized until just now and more, especially since terrestrial magick involves the sensing of energy and is the bulk of the magick you will be performing in your career, just like most or many of us I'm assuming.

Quote:
I was re-reading the post which I had printed out. Just as I read ...not exactly what you expected... he ran back into the car holding a carton of cigarettes and tells me that this was the only carton they had left but they didn't have filters. I burst into spontaneous laughter and thanked this lovely being! I am buying this book as soon as I get paid.
Well, technically I think the book does say you don't NEED to do anything but pronounce the words, though experience would consider that a blind meant to veil the book from certain people. Still I guess if your belief and intent is strong enough and you're a natural then go for it. There's no reason why you couldn't have attracted the entities and impressed your will on them without attuned awareness and that's entirely feasible.

Still, it kinda makes me sense an even greater potential within you if that's not the case, and you accidentally employed something like psionics, or candle magick without fire, or raising energy, actually, without the candles entirely. That's win:win, and totally possible. I know of a few others aside from me who have spontaneously awakened to that ability before formal instruction ever took place.

Quote:
I do have a question or two. Can I ask for all types of things?
Well, mind the source of your requests. They are pretty much all angelic beings though yes, all of the curses do work regardless of that fact. I find demons are more apt to produce requests from greed however, and have seen the invisible hand of angels responding overnight to sincere pleads for help when needed. Don't bother lying to angels or Gods -- your vibe contains much info about your intent and it colors your voice so to speak.

Quote:
He seems really sweet and happy; would he hex?
Hmm? I don't follow your post anymore right here.

Quote:
Can I ask for more than one thing at a time or would I have to start over for the second thing?
With NAP I would stick to one object per ceremony. If you want to test it out, as I haven't, start with one object until confident and then move onto two things, or whatever. See the difference.

I like doing several rituals in one day or a few day bursts. It makes lust of result harder, and your journal will come in handy later to remind you of your results.

Don't get me wrong, the more complex entities out there can definitely and easily handle multiple tasks at once, though it's never an encouraged practice as far as I can tell. I mean, picture a laundry list being read off in a ritual. See what I mean, now....

Quote:
Oh, JOY
Happy-Happy. -- Joy. Joy.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


Last edited by nytek; 07-15-2010 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:41 AM   #23
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Thank you for answering Nytek. I don't necessarily avoid ritual although I am still basically pagan trad and I have been doing the LBRP but I was sitting in a car on an Indian Reservation so I thought it might attract attention. If this is of any value, I explained to the angel that this was the first time and how I couldn't do the LRBP and that I didn't have much time, so please accept this in the way it is intended. I think this helped.

Anyway yes I do have some natural something or other. The first time I did something I was about two and a half years old. It wasn't very a nice thing but I was too little to understand at the time. In fact I just figured it out recently. Well what do ya know?

Also I don't take cursing lightly and only made one attempt. This man across the street basically endangered my home, my livelihood, and the emotional well being of my family so I think he wins the prize. I attempted as I usually do with candle and the magic in me. I just didn't feel anything while I worked. Then my red candle exploded causing me to think he has protection so I cursed his car instead. It stalled out, got a flat tire, and then his wife started yelling because the can of oil spilled all over the floor. I'm going after his electricity, plumbing, marriage, and business next.

Well sorry to ramble on and on but I am solitary and I guess I don't get out much.

Peace
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Agata View Post
Thank you for answering Nytek.
Yase.

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I don't necessarily avoid ritual although I am still basically pagan trad and I have been doing the LBRP but I was sitting in a car on an Indian Reservation so I thought it might attract attention. If this is of any value, I explained to the angel that this was the first time and how I couldn't do the LRBP and that I didn't have much time, so please accept this in the way it is intended. I think this helped.
Well, it's not really a matter of respect. The LBRP is just grease for the wheels. And the later ritual to follow is like grist for the mill, I guess. Does that make sense in any other way to you?

Quote:
Anyway yes I do have some natural something or other. The first time I did something I was about two and a half years old. It wasn't very a nice thing but I was too little to understand at the time. In fact I just figured it out recently. Well what do ya know?
Pay attention to these early things that lead you into your magickal career. They are things that deserve to be explored despite your learned contempt for sake of maintaining social order and fitting in. I'm not saying to rain down destruction on the Earth, just that there is such a thing as healthy anger and as long as you're not sensitive in assigning judgment against perceived wrongs then you won't become "that kind of person". You will be yourself -- only with less restriction and more of a law unto yourself. It sure beats a slap in the head.

Quote:
Also I don't take cursing lightly and only made one attempt.
I don't either, though admittedly black magick is one of my favorite niches of study nonetheless. However how do you expect to make any real progress in the magickal martial arts if you praise a power that binds your hands from using it? I'm referring mostly to karma amongst traditions and the personal fears the unconscious instills in us. That aside, there are a good number of passive defenses you can install to avoid most of the nonsense you'd have to face.


Quote:
This man across the street basically endangered my home, my livelihood, and the emotional well being of my family so I think he wins the prize.
Justice as it seems to be used most is an attempt to restore peace by making another person feel what you feel inside for your own personal satisfaction, despite the overlaid motivation that presents itself as the means to the end. That said, no reason is ever a "good" reason objectively, and to ponder otherwise is to fall into the pit of Because, I feel. In my mind, you did what you felt you needed to do and not over something petty apparently. All moralizing is subjective. You lost emotional/etc. energy due to what you feel was something intentionally done, and you seek to regain that energy perhaps with interest. How you got there to that point is entirely justified in my mind if somebody decided to clash with your path and you have analyzed your own karmic input into the situation.

Anyhow, a binding is often good and mean enough to work depending on how you set it. I suggest you start there.

For your case a clay poppet and some red ribbon, or red and black thread and a prayer to an entity to re-enact your effigy's binding is all you need here. It's been said that this trick alone has brought down the likes of much mightier than your neighbor in all likelihood. And if he's an angry guy and not very self-aware then that alone is a big enough weakness for his own downfall to be procured through right there ... without anything major on your part or rolling around cursing and screaming after midnight or visiting cemetaries or blah blah blah. The end.

Quote:
I attempted as I usually do with candle and the magic in me. I just didn't feel anything while I worked.
Well if you didn't evoke or assume a godform or something I'm not sure what you refer to here...? I mean those kinds of things usually seem to revolve around an image of the future and projecting that and a lot of anger into the flame and going through the process of disconnecting from desire, etc... You mean you weren't doing the spell on a deeper level than just pronouncing words or going through motions?

Quote:
Then my red candle exploded causing me to think he has protection
What did the resulting divination say and suggest about your future options? Also is he a practitioner himself or what? Do you have any spiritual allies yet at all even barely or those you hope to work with yet?

Quote:
so I cursed his car instead. It stalled out, got a flat tire, and then his wife started yelling because the can of oil spilled all over the floor. I'm going after his electricity, plumbing, marriage, and business next.
Just bind him in a way that causes him pain and backfiring like a mirror-box spell would using an entity's familiars to surround him. If you're already got NAP to work, you have the ability to do that as well if you can just accept the unfamiliarity of your actions and realize that it's worked for tons of other people and not because they're special or different. I suggest magickally tying his shoes together as such. More details could be said in PM if you want to go this route yourself. A student I've spoken with--her formerly abusive dad after a simple binding is seemingly tamed all of a sudden. It works great for simple situations like that.

Quote:
Well sorry to ramble on and on but I am solitary and I guess I don't get out much.
I feel you. I love these subjects too and it seems like a passion for an art that not enough people share save here and there.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


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Old 11-14-2010, 08:32 AM   #25
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I've gotten from my spirits to do a certain something else rather than just doing the NAP spell 3x. I know I've ready NAP merely says to repeat any spell 3x, but try this during those 3x instead, only if you understand the principles of training the conscious mind deeper step by step when dealing with entities.

Also always vibrate the names several times until a presence is felt before reading on... making sure also to pause at the end of each line to visualize and project everything spoken.


1st time: Say the spell TOWARD the angels, not worrying so much about anything but getting the flow down. Just try to aim for connection itself at this point.

2nd time: Say the spell to the angels this time as if they are already out there somewhere in the astral and are aware of your speaking until the ends of the universe with your magickal voice.

3rd time: Try to imagine the presences conjured so far by the names as phase shifting into your room if possible on the last go, speaking to the angels as if they are now in your room, actually willing and believing this to be happening only as fast as you go. Success here adds much strength and speed to results.

This repeat performance also allows one to compensate for lack of immersion prior to the ritual chosen for performance.


Also the Dee-Hay Thooth rite performed at the end of the Defensive Armor ritual can useful before performing certain other attack spells for one example... these are Mercury zone angels after all, and Tahuti seems add another level or depth of power to their means by dint of His authority adding to your confidence. It's much the same practice as summoning bornless one for a boost.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


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Old 11-21-2010, 11:04 AM   #26
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A possible meaning for ANKAR YOD-HE-VAU-HE.

You call upon the inner planes to formulate your intent (as such) according to NAP: ANKAR YHVH. I read on another forum someone postulating that this is Ong = Creation Energy, and Kar = Energy is in action/motion. YHVH is creation. So you're basically dipping into yesod, formulating your will, and releasing it into manifestation if that is accurate and it's related to Hindi (Ankar). If that is the case, you are symbolically showing and reinforcing the plan for your ritual in one simple formula. This means one should hold their intent in mind while reciting said formula to reinforce the process.


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG


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Old 12-08-2010, 10:56 PM   #27
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Default Straight from the NAP side





"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG

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Old 03-12-2011, 05:53 PM   #28
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I have a copy of this book . I had to buy it for a class quite a while ago. I do remember enjoying it . I'm gonna have to take a 2nd look at it
I did make note of the suggestions from nytek & am going to implement them .
Thank you !
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:48 PM   #29
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Thanks so much for the thread on this amazing book! I'm looking forward to trying it out. I've been doing a bit of reading and the perimeter of this subject-- started reading Lon Milo DuQuette's Enochian Vision Magick and the book that goes along with his Tarot Deck (and the deck), and trying to understand the LBRP.

But the N.A.P. seems to be, just as
Izabael DaJinn
says in the intial post, "streamlined Hermeticism of the sort found in Golden Dawn and its many derivatives." It seems to be perfectly congruent with that which I've read so far, but much easier to get started with while I'm making sense of it all.

I wanted to add that I thought about the author's statement that all we have to do is say the words. I didn't see it as a "blind"--which are things I only today learned the name for, but have definately slowed my progress down as I obsess over every detail even without things like "blinds". I saw it as sort of the kind of thing aimed a people who need to do things before they understand them. Kinda like how you meditate daily for a quite a while before ever really feeling "Chi" being cultivated for flowing. Doing it would (I think for most) get you to really think about it, and I thought the author was getting people into it and hoping the understanding would come. I say that as one who don't fully understand yet.

Thanks so much for this thread and the forum. And for confirming a suspicion that I had that a LBRP would be a good thing to do before the N.A.P. each day.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:01 AM   #30
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Thanks so much for the thread on this amazing book!
I know. I have all the acclaimed grimoires myself and nap is perhaps my favorite. Excellent wording. Excellent results. Easy to pull off with minimal immersion.

Quote:
I'm looking forward to trying it out. I've been doing a bit of reading and the perimeter of this subject-- started reading Lon Milo DuQuette's Enochian Vision Magick and the book that goes along with his Tarot Deck (and the deck), and trying to understand the LBRP.
I suggest sticking with one thing not til mastery but til knowledgble and obtaining results. Enochian especially is vague and for most is very challenging. Otherwise lbrp is self initiating. Over time with repetition you will gain insight. Several authors written on the subject however, if you like.

Quote:
But the N.A.P. seems to be, just as The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums - View Profile: Izabael DaJinn says in the intial post, "streamlined Hermeticism of the sort found in Golden Dawn and its many derivatives." It seems to be perfectly congruent with that which I've read so far, but much easier to get started with while I'm making sense of it all.
Indeed it is streamlined and stackable like with modules.

Quote:
I wanted to add that I thought about the author's statement that all we have to do is say the words. I didn't see it as a "blind"--which are things I only today learned the name for, but have definately slowed my progress down as I obsess over every detail even without things like "blinds". I saw it as sort of the kind of thing aimed a people who need to do things before they understand them. Kinda like how you meditate daily for a quite a while before ever really feeling "Chi" being cultivated for flowing.
Perhaps but I take no chances and vibrate names etc like any evocation.

Quote:
Doing it would (I think for most) get you to really think about it, and I thought the author was getting people into it and hoping the understanding would come. I say that as one who don't fully understand yet.
In my own opinion I feel the author wanted not to confuse people and so he did just that. Those like minded with me will do as our training suggests and total newbies proceed without worrying about if they are vibrating correctly for example.

Quote:
Thanks so much for this thread and the forum. And for confirming a suspicion that I had that a LBRP would be a good thing to do before the N.A.P. each day.
Yeah. Thanks to you, Iza, for this forum. It has been like unto an alchemical vessel to me.

Nytek


"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

--C.G. JUNG

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