Looking for Wisdom? Welcome to The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums!

You must register before you can post. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the list below.

Member Login:

Magick & Mayhem Any and all magickal or occult topics (that don't have their own specific forum). This is not limited to: tarot, alchemy, Hermeticism, astrology, Aldous Huxley, H.P. Lovecraft, crystals, C.G. Jung, Kenneth Anger, Anton LaVey, Robert Anton Wilson, Carlos Castaneda, geomancy, and Ouija boards.

Reply
Old 10-25-2015, 04:37 PM   #1
whiteswan1988
 
whiteswan1988's Avatar
 
Status: Initiate
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: RI, USA
Posts: 70



Default Idea for a New Entity/Spirit/Daemon- "Ice Queen"

Idea for sigil or logo for a daemon like entity or spirit or element- a snowflake for an ice queen daemon, like Elsa from Frozen crossed with Maleficent, signifying frozen water therefore frozen (stronger? usable? ordered? surer-of-itself) “femininity.” Perhaps for use in spells or working where the magician wants to use the “feminine” qualities in a more forceful, “logical,” or assertive way. For what purpose? Perhaps to get something via “feminine” deception or trickery, something which is elegant, or to get it in an elegant or graceful but fierce manner. Colors- light blue, darker blue, black tinged (to symbolize the darker nature underneath it and potential darkness and trickery).

“Ice Queen”

Water must be frozen- trapped in dire and extreme circumstances- before it becomes ice, and so does the “receptive” flowing quality of Water the Element become hardened and its “instinct” and talents are- through mysterious processes- frozen into “logical” form into Ice the Element, with which it can manifest its dealings in a more harsh albeit graceful manner.

Water receives, whereas Ice traps and then consolidates and changes whatever it traps into “logical” or patterned or crystallized form, perfecting and revealing the “logic behind” whatever it traps. Ice is the tougher, yet (seemingly paradoxically) more beautiful form of Water. Think of Water as a kindly, passive, yet powerful and consuming Mother, while Ice is her sharper and more conscious-minded young niece who is just as mysterious, but is more self-centered in a way, more dedicated to her own cause, more immediately effective and mathematically logical, and yet not quite as unlimited and consuming as Water and therefore, in a way, not as powerful.

Ice wasn't a commonly found entity in the early magickal days because in places where magick and such studies were most popular (Middle East, Greece, Egypt), there weren't a lot of cold places. The addition of ice- perhaps not as a major element, it technically not being different from water- is long awaited and I think it will bring a lot of great spells when I perfect her exact nature.

Ice Queen, I suppose would be good for spells in which the target is engaging in trickery or sneaky, irrational, evasive behavior (for example, a lover who gives dishonest reasons for ignoring you, or any case where you want to trap someone in order to crystallize the truth about a situation they are involved in). Or, any situation where you want to use the qualities of “Water” in a more active manner, such as to “entrap” something in a more “virginal” (non-”intuitive”/”smothering”) manner while also revealing the “logic” behind it.

If I create a sigil, it should be very symmetrical and based on the number 6, like all snowflakes are, which signifies the meaningfulness of the number “6” in occult science and also underscores the fact that while all snowflakes are different, they all “magically” adhere to that same “logic” of fact, truth, and the beauty of symmetry.

I'm surprised I have never heard of ice being used as an element/concept before in magickal circles. I think I am onto something here. I will perfect the description of this element later and see what we can make of it.


“any case where you want to trap someone in order to crystallize the truth about a situation they are involved in”

Think seducing the truth out of them.

While Water consumes and returns everything to the Great Mother (the “feminine”), Ice also consumes but freezes it all on a more “logical” or worldly frame, thereby not being as powerful as Water, but being more immediately useful for certain tasks of a more “realistic” nature.
whiteswan1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2015, 05:17 PM   #2
Djinn and juice
 
Status: Adeptus
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 140



Default

It's a great an interesting idea for an egregore, but take a look into the shamanic traditions of northern Europe, and the Siberian natives. Perhaps you'll find more inspiration there

If you're familiar with the runes and runic magick, examine Isa. Ice was certainly an element in it's own right to the people of that time, and it has a lot of the associations that you've made to it intuitively.

As to the cultures that sprang up around the middle east that we take inspiration from in our magick in the west, ice wouldn't have been unknown to them. The Sumerians and the Assyrians ruled parts of northern Turkey, Kurdistan, and Iran. I imagine that being pretty advanced cultures they recognized it as the colder, darker aspect of the water element.

In magickal traditions ice is evident and self explanatory in the freezer spells of Hoodoo and Voodoo.

Great idea though, I can see it has lots of potential
Djinn and juice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2015, 02:45 AM   #3
MalikLucius
 
MalikLucius's Avatar
 
Status: Initiate
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Between
Posts: 34



Default

Your reasoning on your correspondences is flawless, but let us take a step back for a moment. When all is said and done, what is your end? Do you simply want a thoroughly effective Sigil representative of the stated intentions, or are you aiming for something more complex?

For example, as Djinn mentioned, do you want to end up with a fully conscious and independent Egregoric Entity, after the famous example of G.O.T.O.S.? Your results could fall anywhere on the scale between, naturally.

The complexity of the end goal will determine a great deal about what details you wish you include.
MalikLucius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2015, 04:09 PM   #4
Djinn and juice
 
Status: Adeptus
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 140



Default

My line of reasoning there was along the lines of personal experience and probably warrants a little explanation for further discussion.

This is how my mind works. A sigil is a very basic thought form, it is designed to something very specific for it's creator, and will not function beyond that unless it's worked with by it's creator and then evolves to become a servitor which has various uses and is capable of learning if directed to do so, and "fed" by it's creator.

When a servitor is not the product of one mind it evolves to become an egregore, fed by the desires, motivations, and beliefs of many and all who work with it. This idea, brilliant I should add, being in the public domain is something that anyone could pick up and run with to their own taste, all drawing power from the same source and providing another face to an "entity" hence my usage of "egregore."

Sorry for ranting! I love talking about this stuff and get carried away sometimes, and I hope this doesn't come across as me saying my way is the only way, this is just what I've learned and processed so far, I'm quite happy to learn otherwise
Djinn and juice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 09:15 PM   #5
whiteswan1988
 
whiteswan1988's Avatar
 
Status: Initiate
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: RI, USA
Posts: 70



Default

You are not ranting, Djinn and Juice. I love reading your writings.

I'm glad to hear that this element exists, because I think it could be a lot of use for me in general (I was told a while ago on this forum to be tougher and get in touch with my inner goddess, in so many words).

I want to delve into magick once and for all, because I've been a dabbler for all too long, and "inventing"/"discovering" new elements (new to me) is my way of plunging myself into it. No more straggling for me!

Every time I have wanted or needed magick, I have been sorely out of practice (haven't even done the LBRP/ERP in over a year!) so I want to get back into shape for times when I need to flex my magickal muscles!

Might as well always have it as a backup.
whiteswan1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2015, 09:16 PM   #6
whiteswan1988
 
whiteswan1988's Avatar
 
Status: Initiate
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: RI, USA
Posts: 70



Default

Also, you are right about the Middle East- there are mountains in Africa and the Middle East (even the hot sections) that have ice because they are so tall.
whiteswan1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2015, 07:47 PM   #7
Djinn and juice
 
Status: Adeptus
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 140



Default

Thinking about your correspondences with this idea has brought up a few interesting things, this in particular is worth a few words.

I'm an advocate of looking for magickal lore in folktales, it's surprising what you find. The brothers Grimm for example, were trying to document folk magick in a period in which it looked like it would die along with it's practitioners in a fury of religious persecution, and this was a dangerous hobby. The easiest way of doing that was hiding it in the symbolism's of a "fairy story."

Hans Christian Anderson wrote a story called The Snow Queen, and I loved that story as a child, but your Ice Queen jangled a few sleigh bells which led me to this nugget of inspiration...

So the story goes that the snow queen will capture, and ultimately destroy her lover/victim with 3 kisses. The first to bring them under her spell, the second essentially turns them into a slave, the third kills them, or prevents them from returning to their reality.

This has always made think of the Irish Geis, or Geisa. The area that I live in the UK is rich in Celtic and Nordic history and lore, so this is kind of common knowledge among the pagan practitioners around here, but it occurred to me it might be pertinent to share here and possibly of use to you in bringing your Daemon to life.
The Geis is traditionally a verbal curse or prophecy laid by one who's close to the Fae. Geis is singular, Geisa is plural, and the Geisa get the most face time in recorded history, The best example is Cu Chulainn who had a Geisa laid on him when he killed his masters hunting dog in self defence. A Geis was placed on him that if he ever ate dog meat he would die in a terrible way, and all warriors of Ulster were under a Geis to never refuse hospitality lest they lose honor, just for kicks. So wandering wounded from battle Cu is offered food and shelter by a hag camping at the roadside, and she offers him dog meat. Faced with a decision between breaking his Geis he chooses to accept the food, and promptly dies in battle after tying himself to a standing stone and facing the oncoming hoards.

I think this is a great expression of the duality of the primal, elemental intelligence's and energies that make up the "magickal world" and an effective function for the vessel. While ice can guide you over a frozen current to safety, it can just as easily take you down the wrong path to your doom. To lay a path on someone that leaves them stood undecided while the ice thaws could be both a blessing and curse, much like a Geis.

I get Saturnian vibes off this, both the beginning and the end, cold, distant unless you get to know it and its necessity, a warrior, Apollo. Just throwing shapes, feel free to ignore or take it somewhere else of course
Djinn and juice is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
ice, new element, sigils, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An Idea for Nion and Certain Others Only nytek Ye Old Black Magick 5 07-07-2010 11:48 AM

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM.