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Beginner's Magick Forum This is a safe haven for magick and occult newbies. The rest of the forums may bite, but here Izabael will assist with beginner's questions on magick and demonology (daemonology).

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Old 01-21-2010, 07:27 AM   #11
thorhammer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izabael DaJinn View Post
That's the right attitude actually. Much of the power of the LBRP is getting into a groove with it and constantly tweaking will ruin that.
Good to hear. That's why I want some direction - here it seems that most people are into experimenting and playing with stuff, which is awesome, but, to take a chemistry analogy, where I'm at if you let me alone with the water and the pure sodium . . . it could get ugly!
Quote:
I also understand your frustration at the all the variants around.

The best bet I think is to take a step back. You are now throwing in Thelemic variants which is futher confusing this whole issue of quadrants and clockwise/counter clockwise.
Yep, true. It's just that the LBRP is so . . . Christian-feeling . . . which makes my skin crawl. I know it's just ignorance, I need to be edu-ma-cated, but that will take time. And I find it hard to feel the ritual when its forms and symbols grate on me so.
Quote:
There is not even a need to change the clockwise direction because you are in the Southern Hemisphere. Clockwise is still clockwise, i.e. the way your clocks move, isn't it? That is the defacto standard. Go with that until perhaps later in your magick you ahve a reason to change it.
If I may be so bold - yes, the clocks still go the same way. But, as any n00b witch learns quickly in the SH, sunwise (deosil) and clockwise are not the same thing here. If you visualise yourself standing on the North Pole, and watch the sun go around the earth, it's in a clockwise direction, right? Now try it from the South Pole. It's anticlockwise . . . but still sunwise. As I understand it, the reason for the direction in magick of any kind is not based on clocks per se, but on the sun . . . sundials . . . clocks . So at a very fundamental level, I feel a need to go sunwise; i.e. anticlockwise. And from there . . . everything goes squiffy. Where is Auriel now? And if I go with the Nu-Sphere version, what about Hadit? This is where I'm coming unstuck, and it's something I know I'll probably have to do myself but it's so daunting to have to start from scratch. I feel like I've got a blindfold on.

I do appreciate the responses, though, and I hope I'm not coming over as argumentative - such is not my desire at all. Thanks for the help so far!
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:20 PM   #12
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You said something very powerful

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*sigh* See, at this stage in what might be termed my magickal career, it's not overly helpful to know that whatever feels right to me is the go.
Right now you are trying to find what works for you. Everyone is different. For example, look at this thread
Ceewayne's First Mediation
. The reason why I call the elements in the order of Fire, Water, Air, Earth and Spirit is that the Spirits I work with made themselves know to me in that order. It also matches the elements in the Tetragrammation and the Court cards of the Tarot. Now does that work for everyone else? Maybe. In short, see the symbols as building blocks that you have to respect.

You will have to try things. One thing that is very important is the Magickal Record. Keep notes about how every ritual is done and how it affects you. Then you can look back and see what works for you.

Have you looked at the Star Ruby yet? That is much more Thelema. Let me get home tonight and I will post my notes in the Wiki we have. I would do it at work but I keep my occulty stuff on a flash drive since I use a work laptop at home.

And no, you are not being argumentative, you are trying to learn. You are not taking some ritual you see on the internet and trying it, you want to know Why. That is a good thing.

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:07 PM   #13
Izabael DaJinn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorhammer View Post
Good to hear. That's why I want some direction - here it seems that most people are into experimenting and playing with stuff, which is awesome, but, to take a chemistry analogy, where I'm at if you let me alone with the water and the pure sodium . . . it could get ugly!Yep, true. It's just that the LBRP is so . . . Christian-feeling . . . which makes my skin crawl. I know it's just ignorance, I need to be edu-ma-cated, but that will take time. And I find it hard to feel the ritual when its forms and symbols grate on me so.If I may be so bold - yes, the clocks still go the same way. But, as any n00b witch learns quickly in the SH, sunwise (deosil) and clockwise are not the same thing here. If you visualise yourself standing on the North Pole, and watch the sun go around the earth, it's in a clockwise direction, right? Now try it from the South Pole. It's anticlockwise . . . but still sunwise. As I understand it, the reason for the direction in magick of any kind is not based on clocks per se, but on the sun . . . sundials . . . clocks . So at a very fundamental level, I feel a need to go sunwise; i.e. anticlockwise. And from there . . . everything goes squiffy. Where is Auriel now? And if I go with the Nu-Sphere version, what about Hadit? This is where I'm coming unstuck, and it's something I know I'll probably have to do myself but it's so daunting to have to start from scratch. I feel like I've got a blindfold on.

I do appreciate the responses, though, and I hope I'm not coming over as argumentative - such is not my desire at all. Thanks for the help so far!
You can go counter-clockwise...that's fine!

Well it's not so much Christian as Judaic, but I get your drift. Do you not like Qabalistic names at all? Because that's where the Christian vibe comes from. If you do not like Qabalistic "mythology" you can substitute in Norse gods and goddess for example.

I think you are obsessing a little bit tho. Magick is not Chemistry; it deals with our emotions and our mind and our psyche....that's much more elusive than elements of a periodic table. I do agree some rules should be followed, but like I said, the main point is to center yourself in the four directions....this is traditional even to Native American Shamanism. Sooooo you have many options for creating this opening ritual.

The LBRP and the like are meant to clear your space, center you, and put you in the frame of mind for other magick. Just write your own ritual and stick to it. If you are not ready for that then stick to the LBRP. Don't be hung up on its origins just because modern Jews and Christians are so lame. There's good stuff in there :-)

I'm not sure of your problem with Hadit in the Nu-Sphere version. He's in the south for fire which makes as much sense as the rest of that ritual. Putting him outside myself doesn't work for me personally as I feel Hadit within me and not in a cardinal direction. Nuit is everywhere outside me and not in one particular quadrant either. If you really want to write a Thelemic one, we could do a lot better....

And just to put things in perspective...cleaning and straightening out your Temple space matters at least as much as drawing pentagrams in the air. What you are doing is a creating a sacred space that grows more sacred because you treat it as such. Trust in your higher self to work these things out over time.

xoxo
Iza

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Old 01-21-2010, 11:47 PM   #14
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Speaking of the topic of magick and Christianity, Qabalah, and Judaic roots, I found a few books which show Graeco-Egyptian Magical Papyri which have basically the Qabalah as we know it, but done many a year before it was known to the Jewish magic systems. Cosmographical Tree, and The Papyrus of Abaris have the best information, as does the author Stephen Flowers. I recommend "Hermetic Magic: The Postmodern Papyrus of Abaris"

Another suggestion I recall a Norse Pagan friend of mine did was making a tree of life based on the realms of life and the afterlife within the mythology. I believe he made a pretty balanced eight sphere tree which worked wonders for him as he assigned each sphere to a planet, and after that worked extensively with 777 and made a system of magick which he enjoyed.
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Old 01-22-2010, 02:33 AM   #15
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Star Ruby info

http://thefoolspeaks.com/wiki/star_ruby

Have to finish transcribing my notes, but it is a start

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:59 AM   #16
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Thanks, all. ceewayne, that looks like a lot of info . . .as luck would have it, I got the "Don't come Monday" spiel today at work so I'll have some time next week to look at it and give it a good workout. Thankyou. I've looked through the Star Ruby but haven't gotten as far as working through it. Not even contemplating it within the next few weeks!

Iza - LOL I know I'm obsessing Sorry - I'll get past this slowly. Tell you what - I'll shut up for a few weeks, work hard at it, then peep back in and hopefully be less obsessive (and obnoxious ). And what you say about clearing the temple is great - it's on the list of things to do. You'd think that one person living in a three-bedroom house would have enough room, right? Wrong . . . I'll give it time, as you say.

Xophier - that book sounds really interesting! Mind you, so did that weirded out stuff by Zechariah Sitchin . . . But I'll have a squiz!

Thanks again, everyone.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:42 AM   #17
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I left that Wiki with open security settings so it's overrun with spam. Gonna take it down until I can get it into shape. Unfortuantely that wiki software is not robust and customizable like vbulletin. it's very clunky and un-fun to use.

Here's the Star Rub tho that was posted there:



Class D Document With additional notes.
1. Facing East, in the centre, draw deep deep deep thy breath closing thy mouth with thy right forefinger prest against thy lower lip. Then dashing down the hand with a great sweep back and out, expelling forcibly thy breath, cry APO PANTOS KAKODAIMONOS. ("Away every evil spirit") Apo/Pantos/Kako/dai/monos
2. With the same forefinger touch thy forehead, and say SOI, ("thy") Soi-eee thy member, and say O PHALLE, ("phallus") Oh falle thy right shoulder, and say ISCHUROS, ("mighty") ee/ischarous thy left shoulder, and say EUCHARISTOS; ("beneficient") you/char/ristos then clasp thine hands, locking the fingers, and cry IAO. Eee/aah/ooh – (droning)
3. Advance to the East. Imagine strongly a Pentagram, aright, in thy forehead. Drawing the hands to the eyes, fling it forth, making the sign of Horus (The Enter, throwing my hands out and right foot forward) and roar THERION. Retire thine hand in the sign of Hoor-paar-Kraat (Stand up straight, right hand up, finger on lips). There/eee/on
4. Go round to the North and repeat; but say NUIT. Neew-eet
5. Go round to the West and repeat; but whisper BABALON. Babalon
6. Go round to the South and repeat; but bellow HADIT. Haa/deet
7. Completing the circle widdershins, retire to the centre and raise thy voice in the Paian, with these words IO PAN, with the signs of N.O.X.
a. Puer - Right arm forms an "L", with closed hand, thumb pointing towards the head. Closed left hand rests at the base of the torso, thumb pointing away from the body. Khem - he was the god of reproduction; as Khnum, he was the creator of all things, "the maker of gods and men"- Creation
b. Vir - Place closed hands at the temples with thumbs facing outwards, resembling horns. Amoun who comes at the voice of the poor in distress, who gives breath to him who is wretched..You are Amun, the Lord of the silent, who comes at the voice of the poor, when I call to you in my distress You come and rescue me...Though the servant was disposed to do evil, the Lord is disposed to forgive. The Lord of Thebes spends not a whole day in anger, His wrath passes in a moment, none remains. His breath comes back to us in mercy..May your ka be kind, may you forgive, It shall not happen again. – Support
c. Puella - Standing upright, place open right hand over the breast, and the open left hand over the groin. The Goddess Aphrodite as she prepared for the ritual bath that restored her purity. The Babe of the Abyss.
d. Mulier - Arms form a 90 angle above head, elbows bent slightly, with hands open. Feet are a little over shoulder width apart, facing forward. Head looks upwards. Sign of Babalon. Babalon Herself
e. Isis Rejoicing - Head looking downwards, the right hand pinches the left nipple, while the left hand cradles just below solar plexus, as if holding a baby. – Maternal Feelings
f. IO PAN – eeoh/pan
8. Extend the arms in the form of a Tau and say low but clear:
PRO MOU IUNGES – pro/mo/nuges Before me the Iynges - whose nature is fiery, invigorating, seminal, transmitting by ineffable means the Will of All. "the Operator... the Giver of Life-Bearing Fire...
OPICHO MOU TELETARCHAI – opio/moun/telechari behind me the Teletarch(es) - Representing the agent of initiation the "Overlord of Initiation" originating in the Supernals
EPI DEXIA CHUNOCHES – epi/dexus/shercous on my right hand the Synoches - whose nature is binding, holding together, uniting in love under will, being instilled with strength and power.
EPARISTERA DAIMONOS – palaseti/daimonous on my left the daemons - Spirits, Divinities below the Abyss. If we take the word to be Daimones then it signifies the energies of departed Adepts, means Spirits, "Geniuses" or Entities.the most "earthly" concept of these Four.
PHEG EI GAR PERI MOU O ASTER TON PENTE – peg/eligar/peri/moun/hun/study/to/wen/pente for about me flame the Star of Five
KAI EN TEI STELEI – kai/en/tei/steli O ASTER TON EX ESTEXE. – hun/study/ton/ex/extasy and in the pillar stands the Star of Six. Repeat the Cross Qabalistic, as above, and end as thou didst begin.

9. With the same forefinger touch thy forehead, and say SOI, ("thy") Soi-eee thy member, and say O PHALLE, ("phallus") Oh falle thy right shoulder, and say ISCHUROS, ("mighty") ee/ischarous thy left shoulder, and say EUCHARISTOS; ("beneficient") you/char/ristos then clasp thine hands, locking the fingers, and cry IAO. Eee/aah/ooh – (droning)
10. Facing East, in the centre, draw deep deep deep thy breath closing thy mouth with thy right forefinger prest against thy lower lip. Then dashing down the hand with a great sweep back and out, expelling forcibly thy breath, cry APO PANTOS KAKODAIMONOS. ("Away every evil spirit") Apo/Pantos/Kako/dai/monos

Very Useful Links
An Analysis of the Star Ruby Ritual by Frater A.L.[1]
Attributing the Elements to the Four Directions in Liber XXV, the Star Ruby [2]

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Old 01-22-2010, 03:12 PM   #18
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Thank you for pulling it off before downing the wiki. I am going to reformat it and my notes and post it in the ritual section.

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izabael DaJinn View Post
If you are a complete n00b to magick, now is the time to get started.
Izabael
For me, and perhaps for most others, the hard part is to finally put the book(s) down and DO something.

So, I am in the process of doing something.

It is odd how things are coming together for the working. I mean the type of working, the date, time, Moon phase and VoC and where it ends up after the VoC, the various other correspondences etc.

I'm just trying to find a decent "banishing" ritual that doesn't use hebrew words. They stick in my throat. I guess I'll make up my own.

For those that need the days/hours of the planets and moon phases, check out http://sourceforge.net/projects/chronosxp/ It is a handy little tool.

For moon Void of Course dates and times, I use http://www.drstandley.com/Void_of_Co...shtml#july2011
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:56 AM   #20
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I'm just trying to find a decent "banishing" ritual that doesn't use hebrew words. They stick in my throat. I guess I'll make up my own.
You know, more people should do that. Can you post what you are doing. There are rituals I have done for years and I would hear someone else talking about something and it was like 'light bulb, I never knew that.'

As for other banishing rituals, I don't know what your spiritual mindset is, but have you looked at the
Star Ruby
? Just a suggestion, what works for you, is the best.

93

Chris



I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.
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