The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums » Advanced Magick » Ye Old Black Magick

[asancta]

There's trance induction, the overcoming of pain and pleasure dualities ... and throughout you're making the sub's aura expand to basically milk it of energy as it swells. Between dom and sub there is also a lock and key metaphor between one part and another often enough; a type of bond and special power exchange that exists. Am I right? Like a sacred object to be defiled yet enjoyed... Though I have no doubt you could of course go way more in depth than that.

I would rather compare it with the snake look into prey s eyes.In the beggining is the fascination of the prey that grows bigger and bigger,then is the soft and warm tie,a lil pain comes into action then you release the tie but prey considered the tie so erotic and passional as he comes back...is a bit of cat and mouse game actually and after a while prey considers the pain as a proof of love.

That actually is not so strange for me to hear. A little birdie told me that you can't ever be a good dom unless you also know what it's like to be a sub anyway.  :)  

Well,as Freud said one can't go without another and from my experience one eprson that is a boss at work and has lots of responsabilities tends to be a slave in bed or not in bed...let's say at home so he will marry a bitchy woman.And vice versa- a guy that is so frustrated at work with his boss and has lots or work -at home he will tend to be aggressive.Of course not to generalise ...I consider S&M as a very good therapy and if you are conscient of your needs many things could be avoided and your life can go better.For example I remember I was in a psychology group/experience exchange type and here comes one woman that came from a very good family with lots of money,that graduated some high school and was so sad because her family rejects her now.Why?Because she 've met one guy that came from a very patriarchal country(won't give name because I don't want protesters at my door callin me Zionist ) and that guy had no job,no house...nothing,and she accepted to live with him in a garage?or was it a dungeon...I don't remember.She quit her job just because he said that women shouldn't work and stuff like that,she wanted to get pregnant to be more bond to him.Her family at first tried to make her change her mind but in the end they just rejected her.Now this is what I call a tragedy.From my point of view if she could've realised her sub needs and have one session or two or 20 with a dom, an experienced one that could realise her type of subness then she would've had a better life.
Also from my point of view christianity is an S&M religion,is enough to see how they praise the pain and guilt to just define it as S&M.This is why -at least here- bitchy women will bow every sunday in the church and ask for punishment for their sins.Think about it...I am not talking only about human relations type of S&M but also mental one,also psychological...

"DON'T..." and you drain them instinctively of their anger, and they just drop their hands and lose all fight ... kinda stunned for a moment, like, "wtf just happened?"

No but I remember laughing back and being sarcastic....

[nytek]

Originally Posted by asancta

I would rather compare it with the snake look into prey s eyes.

You're looking forward to the end of a struggle. With me ... that metaphor sure says it all. At least, I think so... Yes?

In the beggining is the fascination of the prey that grows bigger and bigger,then is the soft and warm tie

You mean like the S&M version of settling in and, "getting to know you better"?

a lil pain comes into action then you release the tie but prey considered the tie so erotic and passional as he comes back...is a bit of cat and mouse game actually and after a while prey considers the pain as a proof of love.

I was a bit confused a moment ago, and was wondering what do you mean exactly by releasing the tie if I could ask you about that part? Physical ties? Emotional? If I understood more of what you meant, the context would become clearer and I would understand how you wanted to be understood that much more.

That all aside, I digress, but it must be a dangerous role for you to play, hm? Walking such a fine line between making a person's sexual dreams come true in a fun way and creating within them a real obsession with all that may imply. How do you deal with that reality?

Well,as Freud said one can't go without another and from my experience one eprson that is a boss at work and has lots of responsabilities tends to be a slave in bed or not in bed...let's say at home so he will marry a bitchy woman.And vice versa- a guy that is so frustrated at work with his boss and has lots or work -at home he will tend to be aggressive.Of course not to generalise ...

You can generalize somewhat so long as you accept the limitations of generalization. Rhetoric is useful. Don't you agree? While I think it's generally true that labels (like dom) can be handy to save time and sum up your tendencies, they are static while people are dynamic. That is why the "dom" submitted to you; because "dom" is but a convenient title merely saying he expects that type of behavior enough to define himself by it; that it has swallowed up some part of his identity. This is delusion more than convenience on part of the label user most times.

You and me are neither lawyers nor are you yourself a "pisser" or a "breather" or a "killer"; all labels like this are a way to express a future certainty of some action and/or defined facet of identity... eg, "I am an X because I do Y often enough." Even to claim to be psychic is merely the mind collecting memories of past incidents enough to affirm a suggestion that future episodes will likely take place. You can't BE psychic then you can only expect to have more psychic events and label yourself thereby, and you can't "be" a dom ... but you CAN be psychic, and you CAN be a dom also even still, confusing as that may sound to most. "Everything is permitted", yeah?.

For example I remember I was in a psychology group/experience exchange type and here comes one woman that came from a very good family with lots of money,that graduated some high school and was so sad because her family rejects her now.Why?Because she 've met one guy that came from a very patriarchal country(won't give name because I don't want protesters at my door callin me Zionist ) and that guy had no job,no house...nothing,and she accepted to live with him in a garage?or was it a dungeon...I don't remember.She quit her job just because he said that women shouldn't work and stuff like that,she wanted to get pregnant to be more bond to him.Her family at first tried to make her change her mind but in the end they just rejected her.Now this is what I call a tragedy.From my point of view if she could've realised her sub needs and have one session or two or 20 with a dom, an experienced one that could realise her type of subness then she would've had a better life.

Is it possible to break these types down quickly, or is that asking too much of you to do for me? I really don't know what I'd be asking of you.

Also from my point of view christianity is an S&M religion,is enough to see how they praise the pain and guilt to just define it as S&M.

Any time you dedicate your life to serving someone and choose to suffer for them as a gift which brings you closer to your master? That sounds to me oddly similar to the idea of S&M, particularly when you notice the erotically ecstatic events of Mother Theresa, and the general sexstacy of prayer and devotion and the agony of denial and self-sacrifice. It goes further because in S&M I believe the dom is at times praised similarly to a god/dess, mind you... and I'm sure this last bit someone like you can attest to being true then?

This is why -at least here- bitchy women will bow every sunday in the church and ask for punishment for their sins.Think about it...I am not talking only about human relations type of S&M but also mental one,also psychological...

I think also those bitchy women use their bitchiness as a shield to keep likely men at a distance. S&M would be one time it's safe for them to drop their guard and be "taken" on a ride they can enjoy without guilt, to speak through a hypothetical. Also, their automatic defense mechanisms would be overridden in such a way.

There is also shame and guilt to contend with, as well as a desire to be punished for those people. You studied QBL for X years. You have the Hebrew signature down there. You know the Ruach is very ashamed of the Nephesh and indeed the ego exists to repress it, or to "modulate" the beast at best via breeding done in sanctioned marriages, sublimating sexual desire into war and other likely violent pursuits otherwise instead. In Sorcery of THEM Ush shows how Christianity is the religion of the Ego in relation to what you were saying about it actually. I recommend you get it and see if it can still be found. No QBL therein but you'll find it satisfactorily germane.

No but I remember laughing back and being sarcastic....

Well, it's a bit different when being confronted by another guy. Society protects you, the girl, from violence for one thing even indirectly through social rules and expectation. lol

[asancta]

You mean like the S&M version of settling in and, "getting to know you better"?
Pffff no...

I was a bit confused a moment ago, and was wondering what do you mean exactly by releasing the tie if I could ask you about that part? Physical ties? Emotional? If I understood more of what you meant, the context would become clearer and I would understand how you wanted to be understood that much more.

Told you, you won't understand...No, a real dom has to surender his/her sub/victim/prey not physically but mentally and after that everything comes easy.You don't jump and tie in chains one and start to beat(is this what you think S&M is??)...unless you are a complette psychopath or Mel Gibson.It is a very subtle sensual art of seduction,part cat and mouse,part snake and mouse,a bit of letting him/her think he won one battle,a bit of pulling him/her more into the trap by that.A bit off make him/her miss you or think of you all day...It's very complex and to be honest complicated ebcause each individual is unique but that makes it even more tasty

That all aside, I digress, but it must be a dangerous role for you to play, hm? Walking such a fine line between making a person's sexual dreams come true in a fun way and creating within them a real obsession with all that may imply. How do you deal with that reality? 

That's the point I don't make dreams come true but I create obsessions instead.I dunno ...I also learned from other Doms and also listened to my slaves and step by step I've eprfectioned my art, so much as now I don't even realise it,comes natural.

Is it possible to break these types down quickly, or is that asking too much of you to do for me? I really don't know what I'd be asking of you.

I'll be damned if I understand ...English pls...

in S&M I believe the dom is at times praised similarly to a god/dess, mind you... and I'm sure this last bit someone like you can attest to being true then?  

Oh yes, most of slaves won't adress a dom with dom's name but Goddess...yes..

Well, it's a bit different when being confronted by another guy. Society protects you, the girl, from violence for one thing even indirectly through social rules and expectatio

n.

No, the society protects the woman as long as she conforms the society rules,in the moment when she skips she is no longer protected,on the contrary and I would add that is even worse fro a woman to do that than a man.

[nytek]

No, a real dom has to surender his/her sub/victim/prey not physically but mentally and after that everything comes easy.

That really makes a lot of sense. A breaking down and building up....

You don't jump and tie in chains one and start to beat(is this what you think S&M is??)

To be fair, you basically pulled that example out of thin air. I never said that stuff, so I dunno why you'd ask if I thought that at all.

...unless you are a complette psychopath or Mel Gibson.

One of the horrors of the internet is that anyone can be Mel Gibson here.

It is a very subtle sensual art of seduction,part cat and mouse,part snake and mouse,a bit of letting him/her think he won one battle,a bit of pulling him/her more into the trap by that. A bit off make him/her miss you or think of you all day...It's very complex and to be honest complicated ebcause each individual is unique but that makes it even more tasty

Interesting. So it sounds like you're a natural at forming emotional connections yourself, or so l gather from what you've said so far.

Above you're seemingly describing the process of seeing what they respond to and also getting them to fantasize about you, which is the key to seduction all in all unless they happen to do that on their own by chance and just respond to the fantasies of their own physical attraction for you; ie, if you got lucky instead.

That's the point I don't make dreams come true but I create obsessions instead.I dunno ...I also learned from other Doms and also listened to my slaves and step by step I've eprfectioned my art, so much as now I don't even realise it,comes natural.

This might be tricky to answer, but what's the hardest part about what you do?

I'll be damned if I understand ...English pls...

I was wondering if you could quickly and easily break down these "types" you've referred to several times.

No, the society protects the woman as long as she conforms the society rules,in the moment when she skips she is no longer protected,on the contrary and I would add that is even worse fro a woman to do that than a man.

You and I, for whatever (likely geographical) reason, have drastically different
experiences with society and violence against women. Here in America, guy on guy violence is "tolerable" loosely speaking, but hitting women, even a woman who it sounds like you would say is "asking for it" by acting how you did is severely frowned upon.

You're tough though. I get it, and I respect that. I was just making a point through an example.

[asancta]

You and I, for whatever (likely geographical) reason, have drastically different 
 experiences with society and violence against women. Here in America, guy on guy violence is "tolerable" loosely speaking, but hitting women, even a woman who it sounds like you would say is "asking for it" by acting how you did is severely frowned upon.

By acting how I did???

My answer didn't refer to the violence against women- was hitting the woman's status quo in the society as a whole but if you wanted to talk about violence against women ok...I can't say that I agree or disagree your example(I don't know exactly what's in the US but I can for sure talk about Europe).All the countries seem to deny and hide and condemn violence ,especially, against women, now what is going on inside a family is a different business.I know cases where husband is ''peacefull '' , condemning war or violence and the family looks like a model to anyone, but the truth is that he is hitting his wife on a constant basis and the examples could continue due to the fact that I was working in that field.The biggest mistake that women do is to defend their abuser,blame themselves and go back to him.We all know that he won't stop...but is a dependency that the victim has over the abuser.Also if you've read Adler you can see why women act like this-they think is normal, they think that they are lower than men,they think that they don't deserve better and this comes frome arly childhood and the status of their family continuing with school where boys were seen in a way and girls in another.Even a well educated man that seems against stereotypes could say once that he apreciates women according to their breasts and less to their character or intelect.

[nytek]

Originally Posted by asancta

By acting how I did???

What? Glad you asked. That's not at all what I meant btw. lol I was merely guessing that the status quo varied between our two cultures; that maybe there's less societal pressure there than here against violence towards women. But I don't know, so it was a guess.

But what you did - to clarify my opinion - was to go inside and find the strength of heart necessary to make a conscious choice to no longer rely upon the mercy of another. You showed you could be defiant against perhaps greater odds in a fight, and that takes courage not to fall into the victim mentality which I applaud. Still, I think those things are personal not necessarilly culturally inherited traits. Wouldn't you agree?

My answer didn't refer to the violence against women- was hitting the woman's status quo in the society as a whole but if you wanted to talk about violence against women ok...I can't say that I agree or disagree your example(I don't know exactly what's in the US but I can for sure talk about Europe).

I have no idea if violence against women is more or less culturally acceptable in what type of geographical regions and demographic populations of the world, etc. :| Not that we could trust the statistics automatically in any case...

All the countries seem to deny and hide and condemn violence ,especially, against women, now what is going on inside a family is a different business.I know cases where husband is ''peacefull '' , condemning war or violence and the family looks like a model to anyone, but the truth is that he is hitting his wife on a constant basis and the examples could continue due to the fact that I was working in that field.

I hope it hasn't jaded you much; that. I can imagine it might.

The biggest mistake that women do is to defend their abuser,blame themselves and go back to him. We all know that he won't stop...but is a dependency that the victim has over the abuser.

A lot of people ask why women like asshole men. They don't. Some women have low self-esteem and see the said "asshole" man as a challenge. They want that guy's approval even if it's bought and the cost the girl constantly pays is her own self-respect and dignity. They believe they have less value than the man as you said, and are stuck finding worth through approval by the said "man". In that sense, it's tough to escape a prison when you're the one building your own prison walls each day, which is true to consider. Simply being there must break one down over time.

Also if you've read Adler you can see why women act like this-they think is normal, they think that they are lower than men,they think that they don't deserve better and this comes frome arly childhood and the status of their family continuing with school where boys were seen in a way and girls in another.

There are various ways to interpret it. In any case I've seen this myself over the years. Some people confuse pain with love, too. Those types generally need to be hurt physically or emotionally to really start to like a guy, otherwise he's "too nice" regardless of what he's really like. Know what I mean?

Even a well educated man that seems against stereotypes could say once that he apreciates women according to their breasts and less to their character or intelect.

That's true, some men do see women as objects in a sense that is not found pleasing by nearly any woman; mere things to be used and discarded without compassion or appreciation. Personally, I would never say that about women however, at least not without being misquoted by accident. Your personality is something that has no limit to it's potential attractiveness on the other hand, unlike the physical body limited often by the fickle taste of culture and standard.

I have said that the average person will automatically notice your tits before they begin to question your morals because the mind works that way. We focus on physical things to reach conclusions about people; the state of their clothes, shoes, body language, etc. We also receive reward and pleasure from looking at those we consider attractive. Your mind takes in this sensory input from around you and generalizes, distorts, and deletes the data to form your reality. Stereotypically good looking people often get away with more than those who are "average" or below. That's all I was trying to say, but I digress. I think it's a horrible fact of the world, but alas, I can't change it one noticable bit by myself.

But if there's one thing I've learned growing up much of my life in NY right near the famous city, it's that beauty comes and beauty goes, all day long, right down the sidewalk. It's like I began to think with girls, yeah - okay, you're hot - but so what? We were born this way. Big deal. You know? But what about the attractiveness of the person you are and what you choose to do with it?

[Anubis]

I've noticed that the character of a person changes their "flavor" for lack of a better word. Shitty people's energy tastes shitty, and I don't want shitty energy. Anybody else notice this "flavor" phenomenon?

[nytek]

Originally Posted by Anubis

I've noticed that the character of a person changes their "flavor" for lack of a better word. Shitty people's energy tastes shitty, and I don't want shitty energy. Anybody else notice this "flavor" phenomenon?

What you say is too vague to tell from alone, really. I mean, of course it's true however that emotions are an energy, and those will not only be projected onto the energy you absorb, but will color said person's actions. Your emotional reactions guide what you do. Grumpy people give grumpy responses to life. People in good moods will generally do things to keep momentum going in a "good mood" direction, etc. The subconscious mind tries to maintain a state of emotional stasis. Not sure what you mean by, "shitty people", though...