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[whiteswan1988]

This whole idea is why I'm not as into Wiccanism as I used to be. Wiccanism is okay, and it's a healthy practice and philosophy, but it's too nicey nice for me. Not enough "get the job done."

I have had problems with money, love, luck, studies, and I get writer's block sometimes (or more accurately, I don't know how to weave the ideas together), so I am in need of high magick, which I think is more vibrant and can both help me and teach me about the great unknown more, make me more of a whole person so I can get in touch with more of my mind before I die.

[nytek]

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Originally Posted by whiteswan1988

"Yes I'm ripping in hard here, I have a true and pure hatred of newagers. And yes, I hate, because so can the divine mofo! hate and wrath are just as true and rightous as Love n light! Just harder to control "

For the record, in order to not offend with my true feelings, often I find I have to try very hard to shield my aura around New Agey people, and think I still fail at it nonetheless many times. The fact that they superficially assume "if it ain't fluffy and white, it ain't right", could irk anyone. It's watching someone actively denying those parts of themselves where power is to only embrace likely external codes of ethics (as opposed to weighed internal values and morality backed by reason, for better or worse as we behave anyway; rationalizing the occasional violence of life how we may).

Me: I want a million dollars! I'm going to try to beat Ernie in the lottery and win it all for myself!

Average New Agers: Well, that's not really fair to Ernie.

Me: What's the difference? Either way, one of us has to lose out. Why don't I have a right to choose to try to make it so that the loser is not me? After all, that's what Ernie's doing?

True. Some people are so overly concerned with others as to neglect themselves. I believe they feel, in an extraverted way, that they are trying to display how noble they are to achieve recognition that indeed, they are that type of person. It's a common enough scenario amongst us humans, consciously done or not. It's all about the core beliefs we choose and how they shape our reality tunnels in the end.

Me: I don't want bad things to happen to me.

Average New Ager: Bad things are ways of learning.

I get your point, but not all lessons need to be learned. With respect, I note that your point over-reaches beyond its scope through the usage of logical fallacy (ie, as seen below).

Besides, there's no such thing as good or bad...

Me: [does something bad]

Average New Ager: OMG YOU CANT DO THAT THAT"S NOT NICE OPRAH AND WAYNE DYER SAID THAT YOURE A NEGATIVE PERSON YOU CANT DO THAT THAT"S HIS MONEY NOT YOURS AAAIIIIHISHSHSHHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!

I again point out the logical flaw as much as I get and understand your sentiments about perceived hypocrisy in New Agers (though why just them?), for I too understand the subjectivity of societal and religious ethics that we are all faced with daily; us, reading this. I have to say A bunch of your post potentially relates to me in part. And while I don't believe it's literally objectively "wrong" of you to, I don't know, go and key the side of my new car ... well, I will certainly not find your doing so pleasurable to say the least, and will feel obligated to respond with more of the same to hopefully teach someone like that the lesson in pain which comes with doing something as stupid as trying to hurt me. See? Pain; subjective lessons; subjective value judgements. It's all coming together for me here in a new light. That's the joy of writing your ideas down when bored.

Me: I thought you said there was no good or bad. And if pain is a teacher and a learning experience, didn't I do the person I took something from a favor?

Perhaps, actually. Who can't learn from life? Who is not stuck somewhere? Maybe you needed to come across someone too cranky, crazy, or otherwise inclined to bring misery and hardship upon you not to. My first magical battle was a slug fest that eventually turned tides; from surviving that, I know we both really learned many valuable things.

Perhaps that attacking person needed to observe themselves losing their cool and from seeing the aftermath would be inspired to put down the sword and learn patience - an act that could change their whole life, or cause them to gain some other type of wisdom. Whether this much is divine decree at work or not is irrelevant; the fact is that you can look at your life this way and it works. It's called "Mysticism", more or less.

They have this idea that you should always let "the other guy" go first, or win, or have his way.

Well, not me. Not unless I'm holding the door for you, or someone else. But yeah, I too have wondered about those who embrace the "Path of the Spiritual Doormat", as much as with they who curse nearly everything that sneezes.

But if two people are both fighting over something, then which one is the "self" and which is the "other" guy? Is one person the "self" and the other the "other", and they are chosen randomly?

One person always sets the theme or tone in a conversation or interaction. If you are not doing it, consciously or not, someone else is. There are variables surrounding this like culture, status, and interactions between "castes", etc. As you noted as well, there is also the theme of "authoritative speaker" and "listener" you mentioned with many a teacher-student relationship as well.

And anger's only harder to control in our society because we embrace anger less, and therefore, we study it less and it is more foreign to us.

Anger is of the ID; the four Fs:- Feed, Fuck, Flee, and FIGHT. The Ego exists to repress the ID and to modulate it, and thus allows for society to be established, order preserved, and an economy to flourish where "civilization" can be projected onto and over the patterns of nature. So, when we see someone in public NOT repressing the function of their ID - and actually, I mean, ANY strong emotion good or bad - I find many often react with mocking or scorning contempt. You have to be a beautiful person. You have to repress your animal self. That is the key. To fit in; order; the group mind.

Anger is the cry of the disgruntled, and the people who have the heaviest influence on our society are selfish and do not want people to voice the fact that they are disgruntled.

Anger can quite easily become no more than a reaction to the projected pain inflicted by life or others; something where we aim to destroy that which hurts us, like scratching an itch to make it go away. But yes, our Egos deserve to scratch that itch sometimes, as I do believe in punishment even if it is judgement and not justice, personally speaking.

So they insist on no more anger. Heaven forbid should someone say "I don't like this. Change it."[/COLOR]

Uncle Chuckie said it well. Something like, "It's only too bad that Ghandi never had to go up against Stalin." History would have turned out quite differently for him one supposes, and rather easily.

nytek