The Fool Speaks: Magick, Mayhem, Goetia, and the Occult Forums » Magick & Occult Forums » Magick & Mayhem

[L4ugh1ngM4n]

First of all let me say that I am not sure if this is in the correct forum for this topic, and if this is the wrong place to post I apologize in advance.

Let me start by saying I do ALOT of pondering on existence, the truth, and the validity of reality. I would just like to share some of my thoughts on the matter and invite anyone to critique or share theirs as well. I have many many ideas I would like to discuss on this thread, so I will edit this post and add more as I have time, but for now I only have time for this first theory, which if nothing else will provoke some thought haha.

First of all, how do you know what is real and what is not? For all you know you're the only real thing in existence. The world as you know it, including anyone you have ever met, anything you have seen or done, including reading this right now, could merely be a construct of your own conciousness. How can you ever be sure it's not all just a dream? For arguments sake, lets pretend you are just a brain in a jar hooked up to a powerful artificial reality computer. You can only ever know whats in your own head and the only input you posess are your senses, all of which can be fooled and utterly created out of thin air by simply manipulating the brain and the signals it sends.

If this really is the case though, I'm not writing this to anyone but myself, because if this theory is true, than I am alone, and anyone reading my words is just a figment of my imagination. Or is it you who is imagining me?

[thorhammer]

Originally Posted by L4ugh1ngM4n

First of all let me say that I am not sure if this is in the correct forum for this topic, and if this is the wrong place to post I apologize in advance.

Let me start by saying I do ALOT of pondering on existence, the truth, and the validity of reality. I would just like to share some of my thoughts on the matter and invite anyone to critique or share theirs as well. I have many many ideas I would like to discuss on this thread, so I will edit this post and add more as I have time, but for now I only have time for this first theory, which if nothing else will provoke some thought haha.

First of all, how do you know what is real and what is not? For all you know you're the only real thing in existence. The world as you know it, including anyone you have ever met, anything you have seen or done, including reading this right now, could merely be a construct of your own conciousness. How can you ever be sure it's not all just a dream? For arguments sake, lets pretend you are just a brain in a jar hooked up to a powerful artificial reality computer. You can only ever know whats in your own head and the only input you posess are your senses, all of which can be fooled and utterly created out of thin air by simply manipulating the brain and the signals it sends.

If this really is the case though, I'm not writing this to anyone but myself, because if this theory is true, than I am alone, and anyone reading my words is just a figment of my imagination. Or is it you who is imagining me?

It's me imagining you I've thought the same thing - it's all very Matrix, isn't it? Rodney Orpheus' "Abrahadabra" is still fresh in my mind with regard to this - do read it at your first opportunity, it is a very enlightening book. Not deep or highly technical, but brave and broad in its scope.

Anyway. I'm going to just go ahead and say . . . yeah, okay. I'm just in your head and you're just in mine. Neither of us *exists* except by virtue of the others' imagination/perception. Fine, that's okay. Now consider this.

Why does it matter???

Seriously, if all we are here to do is to gain the experience of life in order to take it back to the mother ship (this is my belief), then does it matter aught that you don't actually exist but as a figment of my imagination??? Not even a little bit. You're teaching me. You're a seed of experience in my lifetime, and that is valuable. Existence, or not, does not matter to me. It is the experience that matters.

[L4ugh1ngM4n]

Originally Posted by thorhammer

It's me imagining you I've thought the same thing - it's all very Matrix, isn't it? Rodney Orpheus' "Abrahadabra" is still fresh in my mind with regard to this - do read it at your first opportunity, it is a very enlightening book. Not deep or highly technical, but brave and broad in its scope.

Anyway. I'm going to just go ahead and say . . . yeah, okay. I'm just in your head and you're just in mine. Neither of us *exists* except by virtue of the others' imagination/perception. Fine, that's okay. Now consider this.

Why does it matter???

Seriously, if all we are here to do is to gain the experience of life in order to take it back to the mother ship (this is my belief), then does it matter aught that you don't actually exist but as a figment of my imagination??? Not even a little bit. You're teaching me. You're a seed of experience in my lifetime, and that is valuable. Existence, or not, does not matter to me. It is the experience that matters.

I agree with you, experience is whats really important. But I also have a seriously unhealthy obsession with learning the truth, whats actually real and discovering why things are the way they are. I don't actually believe what I have posted to be true, its just an entertaining thought. I enjoy discussing and debating about this topic haha call it a guilty pleasure. I don't have time tonight but I will write out what I'm currently believing tomorrow. I say currently because it constantly changes. Each time I discover something that explains things a little better, I will believe that until it is agin ursurped by new information.

[thorhammer]

Truth is subjective, there is no getting away from that fact. A guy called Dan Pelletier, a sort of maverick Tarot *scholar*, said something like, if you and I were in sailing boats on the open ocean, side by side, and we both took a reading of our locations from the sun using all those old-timey instruments (or even GPS's) our locations would be different. Even though, for all intents and purposes, we're in the same place, our locations are different. Thus is it with perception - my truth and your truth are subtly different, in such tiny ways as to be indefinable most of the time, but different nonetheless. But that fact makes them both no less true. One truth does not negate the other. It's a fact that takes some getting used to, being as we are raised in a society of "one truth" and accepting the majority rules and all that jazz. But that's not how it has to be. You're a star, and I'm a star, and we're both the centre of the Universe. Our Universes are just different.

[nytek]

How do you Know whats Real?

Some questions are useless to ask, as you will inevitably find in time, but are still very much fun to contemplate all the same nonetheless. Every time I think I begin to understand reality, then something comes along and deepens that subjective understanding and I'm left in awe again just like a child as I gaze at the mystery of it all. Psychology is a good place to start as any though in my experience. Understand yourself--understand the universe. Best of luck.

Nytek [Ex Tenebris Lux]

[UncleAl]

What's real is what you experience. What's real is the responses to external stimuli you feel (even this isn't "real" in that you could say it's just chemical reactions. So I feel like in magick and life, that which has validity is that which increases the quality of living in our short lives.

As far as philosophically, you cannot,nor will you ever be able to know for sure that everything you think, feel, or experience isn't artificially generated. A mystical dream within a dream--or the matrix--you are right. There is no way to know for sure. Mystical experiences hint at something more, but one could invalidate these experiences as not-real as well.

So focus on your moment. That's all that is "real." Even the past is just history...memories...not real at all. The future is fantasy, also not real. What's happening right now is a solid as you'll ever get.